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lets hope you can tell which is leaking...since the oil shoudl look much diff than the water.....
Let me rephrase it... my only concern is that one will leak when I get done with the install... luckily, none of them have started to leak yet .
Quote:
if you have stock lines repace with reliable aftermarket, not SS neccessarily, but somethign flexable....
Check the 240 section out for the full writeup on the turbo install. I used a SS line for the oil feed. The water lines are coming from the TB to the factory hardlines. this was a S13 SR20DE that I turboed, so no water/oil ports on the side of the block like the DET .
Check the 240 section out for the full writeup on the turbo install. I used a SS line for the oil feed. The water lines are coming from the TB to the factory hardlines. this was a S13 SR20DE that I turboed, so no water/oil ports on the side of the block like the DET .
After seeing all the crap you went through on the DE, I can honestly say I would recommend getting the DET instead.
This is going to be a long one… but worth the read, so grab your popcorn and I won’t mind if you laugh at me for my mistakes and blunders that I’ve made
This past Friday and Saturday was my 5th and 6th track days with the 240, and my first with the car being turboed. I kind of knew that I’d have to work out a few issues, especially with the car just being turboed, but I had a lot more to deal with than I thought.
Friday started out like I thought it would, first time out on the track I was being cautios and as they say “working from the bottom up”. 2nd lap out though I blow a coupler… not an issue, I pull back in clamp it back down again and head back out again. 3 laps later I blow a different coupler… same story. Third time out I get about 3 to 4 good laps before bigger issues start to happen. The car felt great, I was hitting 6K rpm down the front straight in 5th gear pretty easily and I was starting to feed more power on the exits with a few one-tire fires happening on the 2nd gear lower speed turns. I decide to pull in to check everything over again, and that’s when I find it. Oil dripping out from under the car! A quick search pin points it to the oil drain, from above it looks like the drain hose slipped off… that’s weird, I know I had plently of hose on there and the clamp was on good and tight . Once the car cooled down and I’m able to get a better look from below I find that the hose actually melted around the clamp… my heat shielding was not positioned high enough around the hose to protect from the heat of the turbo housing. Not a major issue I guess. I pull the hose off, cut the melted hose off the clamp and reinstall the hose again… this time making sure the shielding is well above the hose!
By now, it’s 11am and a good part of my day has been spent with the 240 on a jack and my head under it. I finally get back out after resolving the oil drain issue. More issues are starting to show there heads now though. Down the front straight I can start to feel the car hesitate some and at points when I hit boost the car is falling on its face. As the RPM’s seem to not want to pass 5K RPM when under boost I can hear a lot of air blowing out from the engine bay area… at least that’s what it sounds like to me. I figure maybe I have a boost leak… not the first time I’ve had this issue. I pull back in, find a few clamps that can be tighter, tighten them, and head back out again. Same issue though, the more I try to boost, the more the car is hitting a RPM barrier. I come back in again and found that the clamp to my TB was pretty loose, I tighten it up and head back out again, this time I can hit boost on the front straight and the car won’t bog or hesitate… great, I fixed the problem! Of course as soon as I get a smile on my face again I start hearing noises again!!! In the right hand turns I can hear a vibration through the chassis, I quickly pull in and do a once over on the car, mostly checking wheels and under the car. I head out again to hear the same noise, but louder this time and to add insult to injury, the car is hesitation again under boost. I pull back in again and still don’t see anything. I start the car back up and notice that I can really hear the turbo this time, and not in a good way. Another look under the hood showed the 02 housing being held on by two bolts and those two were several turns from being tight. The sound was my DP banging on the frame rail!!! To top it off, the exhaust gases melted the return hose for the stock oil catch can and nearly melted my SS oil line… thankfully I shielded it! I called it for the day, not much else to do.
At the end of the day I got my car to Bob’s house and we replaced all the bolts that go from the turbo to 02 housing with studs and used locking nuts that my frind Dan had for his Supra… the only thing that I can think of why the bolts back out is that I had the wrong one’s. I used some that were in my misc bolts box, they threaded in and I torqued them, but they sure didn’t hold long!!! I pulled the stock catch can and we used a chunk of hose that I had to just bypass it for now. We also pressure tested the car and found several small leaks and took care of them. I took the car out for a quick run down the road and back and the car ran like it did before the track day. The car hit full boost and pulled strong through 4th gear. I decided to go ahead with Saturday if the car made it to the track without any more issues.
Saturday started out great. I got in a full 15-minute session in the morning and the car ran strong. I was playing with a lot of the cars that I was pointing by 2 months ago, watching corvettes get closer to me as each lap progressed. I was still taking it easy though, nightmares of the day before. I pulled in and really looked everything over, no issues that I could find and the 02 housing was still attached to the turbo! My 2nd session out the car again ran strong and I was starting to push up my braking zones and again work on getting on the gas earlier in each turn. The Tires sure don’t like when I hit the gas to hard to soon. I looked back a few times to verify that yes, yes that was a black strip I just layed down on the exit of that turn. On my 3rd session, I head out and the first time I get into boost the car falls on its face! I couldn’t believe it. It felt just like the day before. I pull in and for the next 3 hours I spent going back through all of my piping with the though that this is a boost leak, but for eveyrthing I tried, the car would just hit a wall whenever I tried to go into boost.
In the end, there was nothing I could do, so I just became a passanger in Bob’s Evo. Riding with Bob did make me feel alittle better; he was attempting to finish off his 275/40/17 Kumho MX’s so he could switch over to the RA-1’s next month. He would go until he started to get pad fade, then keep going till he had fluid boil… it was fun, I must admit.
Yesterday I pressure tested the IC system and found no leaks at 15psi… I was kind of guessing this. A friend and me went out for a drive and repeated the problem, he pointed out the possibility of spark… maybe fuel, but since we weren’t hearing detonation, probably spark. I went back and swapped out the spark plug wires with another set I found in the garage, but the problem continued. I pulled my plugs, these were new as of a few days ago and verified that they are still at .032” for gap and that’s when it dawned on me… their ghost white!!! I’ll be swapping out the stock fuel pump for the Walbro tonight, if this doesn’t resolve it, I’m not sure what else the cause could be. I figured the stock pump would hold up fine to 7psi, maybe not.
Any input on this is more than welcome... and I'm kicking myself for not having a more open mind on the problems while at the track and not just sticking to the dang IC piping.
Sorry to hear you had so many problems on track. I wish there was a way to spend time on a track without actually paying the full HPDE fee, because I have a few things I'd like to test and it sounds like you could have used a similar opportunity to work things out.
Hopefully you'll get them resolved and back on track soon.
Thanks Andy, I really think that most of the issues were resolved the first day. The last one, might just be the stock pump... I'll know more tonight when I get the walbro in. The funny part is that I've done three seperate turbo builds on various sentra's and NX's and never had this many issues on the first track day... oh well.
I just sent my email to cancel my track day for this coming friday at PIR (Portland). I would only make that drive if I would have made it through Saturday with no problems. Guess I got until October 5th to resolve the last issue and do some better fixes to the quick fixed I made Friday night. And it looks like the 5th of October will be the last track day of the year, the other one on the 12th fall in line with a conference that I'll be working
cheaper to start, but maybe break even in the long run?
I think this could be said for any motor, DE or DET... there are to many variables. With a safe tune and being conservative on the amount of boost the DE should last a long time.
I'll be swapping to the cheap DET that I have in the garage eventually and probably will keep the distributor setup just so I don't have to mess with the harness/ECU. I also now have a Electronic fan control since I'm using the B13 JWT ECU... Bonus
Sorry to hear you had so many problems on track. I wish there was a way to spend time on a track without actually paying the full HPDE fee, because I have a few things I'd like to test and it sounds like you could have used a similar opportunity to work things out.
Hopefully you'll get them resolved and back on track soon.
I mean, Charlotte is nice, but we have Rattlesnakes, Scorpions, 2 inch's of rain in 30 mins, BUT most important, "It's a Dry Heat". It's good to be away from the East Coast.
I mean, Charlotte is nice, but we have Rattlesnakes, Scorpions, 2 inch's of rain in 30 mins, BUT most important, "It's a Dry Heat". It's good to be away from the East Coast.
We sure as hell need some rain.
And the secret to how Monty's able to sneak off into the garage so much.
Last Track day and write-up for this year, the actual track day was 2 Fridays ago.
Let me just start by saying that I had a great day on the track with minimal mechanical issues... FINALLY!!!! The weather was great for a boosted car, the day started in the low 40's and topped upper 50's and the sky was overcast 90% of the day. The down side was a very cold track and braking and acceleration issues for others and myself though. This was also the Friday track day before the BMW driving school, so 95% of the drivers there were the instructors... the funner days if you ask me .
The first session of the morning I decided to leave the car as I always do for setup, front and rear sway bars at the middle setting, 32psi cold for front/rear tires, and 5/8 and 3/8 for the dampeners F/R. The only exception that I made was running the Hawk blues up front and the stock pads in the rear... I only did this due to the rear lockup that I was getting on past track days, a Z32 BMC is still at the top of my list of things in the garage that needs to get on the car!
So, I finally got out on the track at 9am, using the wise old philosophy of working up to your limit and not the other way which typically leads to you in the ditch at somepoint. The boost I set to 11psi and dang is the car fast on the straights, not as fast as Dan's Supra or a few of the other instructor’s cars, but fast enough for an open diff and skinny 225 width tires, that’s for sure. On several occasions I was hitting 6.5K in 5th gear on the front straight. I started to have issues right away, the braking didn't feel quite right, I had two occasions where under heavy braking a tire would lock and put me sideways, it felt like a rear tire locking up, but I wasn't 100% sure. Also the car was way to loose, I had a few occasions while going through turn 3 (see track layout below), a small kink on the back straight, the back would step out just a little... at 120mph that little step sure feels big! Also the 3rd gear, higher speed corners were outright scary in the car now, any throttle at all and the back end was stepping out. I had way to many "oh sh_t" moments in the early morning. The last issue that I was having, was the loss of traction coming out of corners... but I know how to fix that one .
Track layout with corner markings…
After 2 sessions of scratching my head and feeling a little uneasy about the car setup I finally decided to come in and do a once over on the car and change a few things. I started by swapping tires front/rear. The rears had more meat on them and wanted them on the front since the fronts still run a fair bit hotter with the higher speed corners. I adjusted the rear sway bar to the softest setting... this was to help keep the rear end from stepping out so much in turn 3 and the tighter turns. The hawk blues in the rear were added, I felt like I was putting in way to much effort into slowing the car down and decided to just deal with the occasional rear lockup. The last thing I found was that I was missing something... like a nut that secures the loose bolt holding the RUCA to the upright on the rear drivers side . I ran down to NAPA (2 blocks away) and found an appropriate nut to use. I'm not sure how much this had to do with my braking/handling issues earlier in the day.
After getting back on the track, I was starting to feel better. The sway bar adjustment was helping a lot for how the car handled in the higher speed corners and my braking felt great once I added the blues in the back. I started to pick up speed on the straights and work on moving the braking zones up. After a few occasional rear lockups I started to realize that most of it was occurring due to the downshift. I had been downshifting in my braking zones like I had in the sentra... basically I don't heal/toe, I lift the clutch slowly and let the speed of the car pull the rpm's up slowly. I had tried heel/toe in the past with the 240, but always had issues on the track. I was getting frustrated and decided to give the heel/toe a try again and I hit it with no issues. With the new Sparco seats and myself sitting a lot lower I found that I could heel/toe a lot easier, and this also resolved my rear lockup that I’d been dealing with in the past .
After lunch, Dan (silver Supra owner) and I started running 30 min sessions opposite each other so we could ride along in each other’s cars the rest of the day. Dan was shocked on how quick the car was, but he was even more impressed on how well balanced the car was. Normally exiting turn 10 for the front straight you hit about 90mph plus and on several occasions I would step the back end out if I got on the gas alittle to soon, I had done this enough times in the morning and was quite use to it by after lunch time. Actually, stepping the car out was happening on all the corners at one point or another as I was learning how much throttle I can put into it before traction was lost. Even turn 2 with all the banking built into it could not assist me in keeping the back end from stepping out if I got on it to early or used alittle to much throttle. As the day went on though I was learning how to get the car through the corners and working on getting corner exit speeds up… it was working. The funny part is that I have a HLSD in the garage, but decided not to use it so I could experience the open-diff . I think I can be a lot faster once I get the diff in, but doing it this one time was a learning experience that I think was helpful in me learning the limits of the car with what I have at the time.
The tires held up great throughout the day… well, as much as you can expect for a small tire and no LSD. The rears did show alittle bit of abuse from the many one-tire fires coming out of turn 5 and turn 6, the 2nd gear tight turns, where an LSD is the most needed.
What the fronts looked like at the end of the day.
The poor rear tires…
Rotor temps seemed to be fine, after a cool down session I was measuring 240-250F front and rear and pad wear looks great. For the full year I only used about ½ the Hawk Blues… granted that’s only ½ what I typically do in a year and most of them were done when the car was NA. The water temps did great, but it was a cold day, so I’ll reserve any comments on this till next year. My normal water temps ran in the 190-200 range. I only saw 220F after a very long session well after the tires were greasy.
The only major issues, if that even, was that the 02 housing loosened up again and the movement of the exhaust on track helped to break a few of the studs. This left me with only 3 stud/nuts to hold the 02 housing to the turbo. This meant I needed to tighten the housing after every session. Eventually I lost my 02 sensor on track and had to borrow a plug to fill that large hole! I’ll need to pull the turbo anyways, so I’ll take car of this issue alittle later in the year.
I’m nowhere near as fast as I was with the Sentra in the corners, but then again I’m still down a LSD, hoosiers, and seat time in the car’s current setup. I’m sure next year once I get the LSD in, suspension setup the way I want, and some wider and stickier tires and some more seat time then I should be dropping my lap times a fair bit
I'm sorry I didn't copy everyone else's setup. If you need a preacher to tell you what mods to put on your car, the Reverend Veilside180sx might have a suggestion.
damn monty almost every issue you stated i've had the same thing. rear end locking up cause i don't heal and toe. weird lock up under braking. o2 housing dp loosening, i've even tried small amounts of thread locker. my last track day with the open, you know the one you didn't come too, spinning tires on corner exit. scary rearend movement. thinking a big wing would be a good idea. my hlsd is in but i havn't been able to drive it, more problems with the aem.
Brian, good luck with getting the AEM sorted out... I am bummed that I missed out on the track day, but there were to many unknowns for me to drive 1200 miles round-trip for a track day.
I'll hopefully sort out the loosening 02 housing this winter. I'm still needing to have the DP bracket modified so I can mount it to the tranny... this will help, also being able to secure all 5 nuts from the 02 housing to the turbo would be helpful . Using any type of locktite isn't going to help due to the high temps.
I'll hopefully sort out the loosening 02 housing this winter. I'm still needing to have the DP bracket modified so I can mount it to the tranny... this will help, also being able to secure all 5 nuts from the 02 housing to the turbo would be helpful . Using any type of locktite isn't going to help due to the high temps.
your best bet to help keep those botls locked in place is to add a flex pipe to your down pipe before the tranny support bracket...it will severly reduce the vibrations between the exhaust and the engine, which in turn will help prevent loosing those nuts/bolts.
another option if you dont want to cut and weld the dp...safety wire (lockwire - usually Stainless steel).
drill a small hole through the head of the bolt, and install safety wire, proper installation will prevent any bolt from backing out, improper installation will actually cause the bolts to loosen sooner. If you want more info on how to safety wire properly let me know. Its an aviation tech. method i use daily at work.
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NASA GRIP Racing.....HPDE Instructor
^^^ Good idea... I've actually safety wired 2-piece rotors before, so I understand the basics of it. This might be an easier way of doing it, especially since i'll have the turbo out again sometime this winter.
I'll probably pass on adding a flexpipe for now... ahh, I'll look into it somemore before I make that decision up
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Monty <--- Another victim of the go-fast crack pipe....
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. Once the car cooled down and I’m able to get a better look from below I find that the hose actually melted around the clamp… my heat shielding was not positioned high enough around the hose to protect from the heat of the turbo housing. Not a major issue I guess. I pull the hose off, cut the melted hose off the clamp and reinstall the hose again… this time making sure the shielding is well above the hose! 
. I ran down to NAPA (2 blocks away) and found an appropriate nut to use. I'm not sure how much this had to do with my braking/handling issues earlier in the day.
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