McCoy

Swept area's not all of it... which is exactly the same as the Z32 since were using the Z32 caliper and pads, so same swept area. The torque has changed since the caliper has moved out and this helped me some with my rear bias I'm sure... or it's just the really big RA-1's keeping the rear in check.

The added thermal mass is where its at though. I have yet to get the hawk blues out of their temperature range (brake fade or adnormal amount of pad wear), even on a 95F day like yesterday where I was late braking every corner to the point of locking up the tires (which I did on a few occasions).

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Monty <--- Another victim of the go-fast crack pipe....

 

sr20goofus

doesnt only 90% of the pad actually contact the rotor? reducing overall pad surface area while also having that added leverage from the inceased distance seems like 2 steps forward and one step back sort of thing.


Sorry monty, i have to play devils advocate here cause im a huge fan of Z32 brakes and still with 20+ HPDE's havnt seen a need to upgrade to something bigger. With the right maintenance and brake setup i can stop just as fast as most because im using tires to match my brake setup.

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NASA GRIP Racing.....HPDE Instructor

McCoy

Something like 90-95%... at least at the end I took one step forward

I think we went two different directions... your using the cobalt XR2 pad, I couldn't find a price but assume it's not that cheap. The temp rating is upwards of 1600F and your going through these pads in 3 track days... at least you have stated this in the past. I've run similiar setups in the past with my sentra and agree you don't need as much rotor if you run the right temp range track pad.

I'm using the Hawk Blues, rated to 1050F and only costing me about $85 shipped. So far after 2 track days (320 track miles)this year I'm not seeing that much wear on the pads and the rotors seem fine too, stopping power has been fine and I've had zero issues with pad or fluid fade.

At the end of last year I was getting pad fade with the blues with the 300zx rotors and wasn't feeling like spending near X2 the cost (pads) for the next step up... so I went this route. I don't feel I went the wrong direction, If I can get 8 track days out of a set of $85 pads and not have braking issues then all is good I'd say.

codyace

The pad still makes perfect full contact, but the overall area it touches is larger.


We both still have the Z32 upgrade, however in the front we are using the larger rotor from a Z33 Track/Cobra/G35.

Up and down, but certainly not in a circle. Total area of rotor touched by pad in a revolution is def larger than before.

I run Carbotech Panther + (soon to go to XP range I think) and absolutly love the way these new rotors worked. There were certainly times where I had fade or just lack of brake power on long stretches (the 120+mph ones), and these rotors now really really help bring the car down. I've noticed the venting internally is a bit different as well...maybe that helps?

I was debating on running brake duct work, however I now would like to get some more seat time to see if I really want it or not. One session so far, and I'm in love.

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Cody Ace
97 240 - SR - 400whp/330ft lbs
365th EN - OIF 3+4
Turbo Altima R.I.P.

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McCoy

Cody, your right on the swept area... I was thinking of something else.

You realize that the Panther + is more of an autocross pad... no wonder you had some pad fade. Step up to a XP8 or Hawk Blue and you should have no worries of pad fade or the thought of adding ducting. I'm braking from 130+ on the front straight and 120+ on the back straight...

codyace

I originally went with these pads, due to the fact that the car did alot of street driving as well. Now that I have the Maxima too, I'm certainly going up to an XP10 or similar compound. I will say that the Panther + pads work great with the bigger rotors.

I need to get a roll bar too lol...

sr20goofus

I guess i upgraded to a higher temp pad because i do more agressive braking and deff need the pads to be there. Its my method of learning is to push the car harder and hard in every aspect, even compressing my braking zones to small almost too small of an area .

The XR2's are a bit costly and now that i have brake ducting they last me 5 events, roughly 900 track miles, and i get them at a discount through my sponsor helping to make it more worth my while. If i account the cost of disposable parts with the money i save on instructing it pretty much evens out in the end.

I just havnt ever had any fade so i havnt seen the need to step up rotor side. I only went to ducting to prolong the life of pads and rotors, they last the same amount of time for me, spider cracks that are uncomfortably gapped by the end of the 5th event.


Codyace, are you coming down to WV for any Summit events this year?

McCoy

I'm at threashold braking with 275 RA'1... and have equal rotor temps front/rear, I'd say that I'm at the limits of the tires, I'm still working on moving the braking zones up, I like to slowly, very slowly work up on moving my braking zones... with no ABS and no real runoffs I prefer to keep the car on track.

And the other reason I wanted to go to a larger rotor... extending the life of the rotors. The spider cracks are directly related to how hot you get those rotors. The Wilwood 2-piece (11.75" rotors) setup wasn't enough for the sentra... I cracked them clear through way to easily with a 225 hoosier on the car... what do you think a even wider tire (more braking abilitiy) would do to them. I mean you can run stock brakes with pad rated to 2400F (half joking) and replace rotors/calipers/pads every day or go with a bigger rotor and keep the high temps off your pad/caliper... after the many years of doing this and first hand experiences, I prefer the later.

I also don't like brake ducting... especially on a car that's driven on the street.

sr20goofus

street driving is the big difference also. and discounts. i get Z32 brembo blanks for like $30/shipped each, so its an expense i dont include in my budget usually.

You are braking to the limits of 275 RA-1's?! I dont see how with those pads. Maybe with an Azenis 615 or something, but the RA-1's can take alot of abuse, my H2 buddy uses 225 RA-1's and XR'2 pads on Spoon 4pot calipers and he late brakes like CRAZY and never locks up the tires. Hell get 8-9 events out of his tires, kind of rediculous actually once you see how he drives.

McCoy

Not going to debate this one. I be paying about $110 shipped for the front Z33 rotors, not bad considering Stoptek rotors run about $400 for a set are not that much bigger in size.

Have you actually used hawk blues before?!? A good set of street tires (shaved RE-01R's) couldn't match the braking torque of these pads and I had way to many lockups on track with this setup, threshold braking was a joke at times. With the RA-1's they are much easier to modulate and have had no issues since. The blues may not be rated that high for temps, but are a true track pad with a moderate-high braking torque compared to what I've used in the past on track. As long as I can keep the pads in their temp zone, hence the big rotors, then they'll work just as fine as any other track pad that I've used (carbotech to just name one of them). I have yet to lock up the RA-1's on track unless I braked in a wrong spot (bumpy sections) or plain came in to hot while passing someone in a braking zone.

And a H2 car is alot lighter than either of our cars I'm sure... with good tires it should stop pretty dang well.

Shift_Munky

How wide was the Wilwood you were running? Was it cross-drilled, how many fins, etc.? It's possible that you didn't have enough mass or air flowing.

I ask because I'm putting together a 2-piece Wilwood solution right meow.

You may need to put this preference aside eventually, Monty. Ducting is a must IMO for tracked cars.

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240SR track donkey

sr20goofus

dont forget Andy, no one really listens to you, so he prolly wont do ducting.

McCoy

11.75 x .81" blank rotors from wilwood... to narrow from what I found out, the 1.25" wide rotors would probably have been a better option.

I'm not against it completely, but would rather save them as a last option if needed at all. I've seen ducting go bad one to many times and on a few occasions get torn off the cars with small offs. Of course all of these were on FWD/AWD cars which I think have more of an issue of running the ducting. Once I start running more power, then it might be required, well see.

I listen, but am also thick headed.

sr20goofus

that almost doesnt seem like a possible statment....sort of like...."its works all the time 60% of the time"

McCoy

Ehh, thick headed wasn't probably the best term to use I guess.

Let me ask you again... have you driven or ridden in a car with hawk blues before, Casey?

sr20goofus

With Hawk i only used the HT10 i believe, then i went to Carbotech XP8's.

Shift_Munky

Yes, they would have as they'd give you more space between the two halves of the rotor. I don't know how many fins you had or how they were designed, but that would have made a difference. I am using a 1.25" thick, relatively cheap rotor ($33 each) at first to see what kind of longevity I get out of it. I will have the brakes ducted soon too.

I think an undertray helps tremendously in this area, and securing the hose properly. I'm also not sure what kind of hose you've seen in use, but the stuff I bought from RPW is beast.

I think you're right about the FWD cars though...I think we have a reasonable amount of room for it. I will have more trouble than most with my SMIC and oil cooler placement, but still think I can

McCoy

I went and did some reading on the blues and HT10's. The blues actually have a higher initial bite (why they won't work with street tires to well) than the HT10's. They're just designed for race application were you need the brakes to work at lower temps. I so wish the HT10s where the same cost as the blues

Actually, from the pictures I've seen the plates are alot thicker and you get more space for cooling too. You can find mine on the wilwood site, just use the info I have above and it's pretty eas