www.robertstanley.biz/firestorm.htm

Seems hard to believe but pretty amazing if they are for real. What do you guys think??

i dunno sounds kinda like cold fusion... smoke and mirrors stuff...

Odd plug. Lot of talk by an unknown. Makes you wonder reading that interview, he seems to have a lot of "I don't know's" though when it comes to questions about the product. Wierder and more important inventions in the realm of engines have come about by unknowns in the past (the jet engine was designed by someone with no experience or background in engineering for example) so who knows. I want to see that in the hands of the public for some heavy duty real world tests though. If it does half of what he claims it does he would turn the internal combustion world on it's ear.

Look at the power curve on google sometime the stoichiometric ratio and all that, you will see that when you go very lean the combustion temperature drops, that part is expected, the hp per pound of fuel goes down too, so there is nothing much to be gained there either. It sit there as an interesting curiosity thats all. You need to find a material that lets the engine burn hotter not colder, that is why you raise the compression ratio really. Carnot and his bike has it all sorted for you.

Mike

Look at the power curve on google sometime the stoichiometric ratio and all that, you will see that when you go very lean the combustion temperature drops, that part is expected, the hp per pound of fuel goes down too, so there is nothing much to be gained there either. It sit there as an interesting curiosity thats all. You need to find a material that lets the engine burn hotter not colder, that is why you raise the compression ratio really. Carnot and his bike has it all sorted for you.

Mike

?? huh??

SLIC is not a new idea (Super Lean Internal Combustion). SLIC has all sorts of strange properties. There are lots of experiments I did in a lab in college that suggest the viability of SLIC for passenger car engines.

One test was a 236cc reciprocating cylinder we ran with 25:1 compression; At around 30:1 A/F we were able to produce 21,660 Watts of energy. Thats about 28 HP. If you do the math, that means a 2.0L engine would make around 235HP. Of course this is a controlled environment, and much of what we did doesn't translate well to real world applications. The principles however, are solid.

On the other hand, using that interview as my only source, Mr. Krupa just sounds like a shyster.

Did you check out any of the other stuff on his site? This, for instance, is a link on his main page:

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/adair.html

I generally hate ad hominem arguments. Maybe his plugs actually do what he says they do - I'm not knowledgable enough to criticize. But he looks like a nut.

On the other hand, using that interview as my only source, Mr. Krupa just sounds like a shyster

Yeah, especially when he talk about hybrid cars, he mentions that they need to be plugged in to change the batteries. He is spreading a lie, taking advantage of people not knowing how hybrids work. Hybrids are pretty much a no brainer when you look at the energy flow. Fuel>KE of the car> heat from the brakes :confused: Why not attempt to close the loop by turning KE back into electrical potential and store it so energy is conserved (somewhat) within the vehicle and reduce the need for external energy input (burning fuel) and reduce wear on the brakes to boot. For course this is only useful if the energy saved here is enough to offset the energy expended to haul around the batteries and motor/generator that make this systme work.

ALTHOUGH you can tell this was written a long time ago, he mentioned about Bosch just coming out with their +2 and +4 plugs, but these have been on the market for 5 years or more. Have you guys seen the new Ford truck commercials that show their 'all new sparkplug'? It looks surprisingly similar to this one, so maybe it did have an influence after all.

SLIC is not a new idea (Super Lean Internal Combustion). SLIC has all sorts of strange properties. There are lots of experiments I did in a lab in college that suggest the viability of SLIC for passenger car engines.

One test was a 236cc reciprocating cylinder we ran with 25:1 compression; At around 30:1 A/F we were able to produce 21,660 Watts of energy. Thats about 28 HP. If you do the math, that means a 2.0L engine would make around 235HP. Of course this is a controlled environment, and much of what we did doesn't translate well to real world applications. The principles however, are solid.

On the other hand, using that interview as my only source, Mr. Krupa just sounds like a shyster.

I agree he does sound like a shyster. The large gaps he has in his plugs mean he must be running very high voltages on his coils. Either that or he is running RF into the spark gap.
Running lean is usually used for pottering around town in top gear, but at WOT it wont help at all.

To BigB, I was making a poor joke about the CARNOT CYCLE, its how you calculate how much energy you will get out of any engine or turbine.

Mike

Before you judge Mr. Krupa too hastily consider that he was issued Patent 6,060,822 on May 9th, 2000 for his spark plugs.

Before you judge Mr. Krupa too hastily consider that he was issued Patent 6,060,822 on May 9th, 2000 for his spark plugs.

so... :squint:

anyone can get a patent if you have the money and an attorney...

^^^ I'm guessing Kevin just forgot the " :D "

Just a few highlights.

"Only on the road while driving my modified vehicles. We haven't put it on a dynamometer for that yet. But horsepower and torque go hand in hand essentially. They would have to go up equally, but the torque is always a lower number than horsepower. "


"Maybe that is where the slight heat loss in the combustion chamber is coming from? Carbon build up causes more heat from friction. Lose the carbon and you decrease the friction/heat.

KRUPA: You know, you may have hit the nail on the head."

Please, tell me what the carbon deposits are in contact with...


"KRUPA: Well, I got 33 more horsepower out of big-block Chevy. But the T-Bird didn't get on the dyno.

STANLEY: Just by adding FireStorm spark plugs?

KRUPA: Yes, but I also optimized the tuning of the engine."

oh so scientific, only changing one variable, except wait, he didnt.

but the torque is always a lower number than horsepower

:rofl:

Yup, in the magical world of 5252 rpm redlines.

oh, but wait....

"KRUPA: Oh yeah. By using this plug I discovered that an engine can run further out in the RPM range. In other words, when standard spark plugs reach extremely high speeds the engines power curve starts falling off.

By using FireStorm plugs, I can operate from 600 to 800 RPM faster with the power curve still heading up rather than down.

STANLEY: Are you talking about engine speeds above "Red-Line?"

KRUPA: Absolutely.

STANLEY: Wow! "

I guess he can go past 5252 now

so... :squint:

anyone can get a patent if you have the money and an attorney...

Really just money and a patentable idea/product/design. You don't need an attorney but it's advisable.

The important thing is that the patent does show research into prior art so he has at least done his homework there and believed enough in his idea to do it. By the way, am I the only person here who thought to look this up?

Yes, he obviously doesn't know everything about cars but neither do I. That doesn't mean he or I cannot have original patentable ideas about some aspects of the operation of an engine.

I have been active in a few boards that discuss theoretical aspects of mathematics (yes, this is legitimate -- if you don't know or believe that then you do not have sufficient background in the philosophy of mathematics and the varying schools of thought there). I mention this because such boards attract all manner of people. Some are talented, some are geniuses and some are just ordinary people who have some very fervent ideas or questions. Some people appear to be judging Mr. Krupa by association with such boards/forums/publications (a reference to the credentials and publications of the interviewer).



Yup, in the magical world of 5252 rpm redlines.

oh, but wait....

"KRUPA: Oh yeah. By using this plug I discovered that an engine can run further out in the RPM range. In other words, when standard spark plugs reach extremely high speeds the engines power curve starts falling off.

By using FireStorm plugs, I can operate from 600 to 800 RPM faster with the power curve still heading up rather than down.

STANLEY: Are you talking about engine speeds above "Red-Line?"

KRUPA: Absolutely.

STANLEY: Wow! "

I guess he can go past 5252 now

...Some people appear to be judging Mr. Krupa by association with such boards/forums/publications (a reference to the credentials and publications of the interviewer).

the spark plugs may or may not work, I think what tarnishes his credibilty is the fact that the article sounds more like a late night infomercial - while reading the article, you have to set your bullshit filter to 11 to figure out how the plugs work rather than finding out a million times just how awesome they are. That is exactly the opposite of your crankscraper website, where informative and understandable tech tidbits are easily accesable to anyone who spends 5 minutes perusing the site - imho, it is the setting aside of hype and the presentation of easily accessible ideas that gain you credibilty and not Mr. Krupa

[QUOTE=Kevin Johnson]Yes, he obviously doesn't know everything about cars QUOTE]

what ever do you mean?

"I have extreme sensitivity to mechanical noise. I can listen to an engine running and tell exactly what's wrong with it.

My hearing is so keen that when I worked at General Motors they sent me to Mexico and to Germany and to New York to fix engine assembly plants. When I went to New York, they were having problems with more engines going in the repair loop and less going to finish. So, I looked at what they were doing and I made changes to 22 machines and got the engine plant running faster than design intent. The Plant Manager offered me an Engineering job right on the spot."

sounds to me( pun intended) like this guy not only knows the fine dynamics of motors but also the opperation of entire assembly plants!
shawn

Is this the same guy that invented the Tornado?

Seriously, dont be naive.
Just read this paragraph and try not to laugh out loud:

"Then I took the head off a screw and bashed it with a hammer until it took a dome shape. Then I took the other side and dimpled it creating a concave... an inverted dome really. I sat that dome very carefully on top of the electrode of the new plug that I had filed to accommodate it, then I put a half a ring over it for the negative electrode. I held all that together with toothpicks. And it started firing like crazy and I said, 'Hey! I've really got something here...' And after that I began looking for a prototype shop to make a set of super custom plugs."

The spark plug has been around since the beginning of the IC engine. There are companies all over the world employing thousands of people, using large budgets and the most sophisticated equipment and meterials all trying to develope the next best spark plug. Then this joker comes along bends a screw with a hammer, and holds it on a spark plug with some toothpicks and bam! 800rpm higher redline, cooler combustion, faster burn, etc etc blah blah blah!
Dont believe everything you read on the internet!
Call NOS (which is a Holley brand) and see if they actually invited Mr. Krupa to come down and do some testing, call the EPA and see if they tested the Firestorm plugs, call GM and see if he actually worked on the EV project. Call crane cams and see if they know Krupa, call Bosch, call split fire!!


This is my favorite question:


STANLEY: Right. I was told that if you try to run an engine too lean the temperature goes way up and causes a loss of power, premature wear and other problems.

KRUPA: It does if you use regular plugs, but my plugs produce a plasma and for some reason the temperature goes down. That's the amazing part!

what a hilarious article. creates a plasma....oh man...thats good!
Except I dont understand what they are trying to sell....