Just thought I'd get the feedback from the rest of the forum, as I am at a loss as to why these numbers are so low, well atleast to me they're low :confused:

First off, my sig has a list of all the parts in my build and I should say this was done on 90 octane gas @ 14psi. In all honesty I was expecting to be nearer if not over the 300whp mark. So I ask, am I missing something or not doing something right or need to add something? Is it that the stock ignition can't cut it? Could it be the clutch not holding the power (it's a Clutch Masters Stage 1, am waiting until it kicks the bucket before I upgrade) ?

These are my graphs, I made 2 runs both with very similar results, netted a best of 259.7whp and 248.5wtq. The A/F seems ok with a high of 12.2 but mainly stayed within the 11's, and started to get richer further on in the run.

The most puzzling part is that it seems as if the power just hits a wall at 6000rpm and then starts to fall off :confused: , any help or insight would be much appreciated.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/achangfatt/Dyno_Run_WHP_TQ.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/achangfatt/Dyno_Run_A-F.jpg

Thanks.

well, if it was 99 degrees F, that's probably your answer. Also, 90 octane is a bit low. Between the heat, and low octane, the ECU might be pulling timing.

exactly

I think if you dont have cams and exhaust you need to get on that and also, it seems like you need to go back and do more tuning because your a/f is kind all over the place, try to make as steady as possible around 12:1. My friend went back to tuning he gained 30whp ebcasue he was running 11:1 and it was too rich.

If you don't have a full 3" exhaust on that car it will do exactly what you see. It will make power till 5500-6500 RPM and just fall off, it can't keep making HP cause the exhaust chokes it off. Run on the dyno with an open J-pipe and see what happens.

OH, and I had the exact same setup as you, 54trim compressor though and only 50lb injectors when I hit 305whp and 296ftlbs of tourque with a cat installed, no cams and no fans on the IC. You have a lot of power to gain.

Brent

Thanks for the reply guys, seems like I have a lot more to do but I forgot to share some more info on the setup so let me add it now, who knows, maybe seeing this will either backup what was already said or point out something else..

Base timing was at 15 degrees BTDC.

Spark Plugs are the NGK BKR7EY gapped to .26.

Throttle Position Sensor was at .45, for the runs it was set to .48.

Fuel Pressure was set to 3 bar.

Thanks

well, if it was 99 degrees F, that's probably your answer. Also, 90 octane is a bit low. Between the heat, and low octane, the ECU might be pulling timing.


Well this is Jamaica so I can't do much about the temps but I know it didn't help that I did the run at 1pm and it's an open dyno, with only a big ass fan to help with cooling. As for the gas, 90 octane is the best you can get at the pump, past that I'd have to by race gas or make a home brew. But this run was to let me know if it was safe on the piss poor pump gas, so it wasn't a total failure for me.

Thanks...Andrew

I think if you dont have cams and exhaust you need to get on that and also, it seems like you need to go back and do more tuning because your a/f is kind all over the place, try to make as steady as possible around 12:1. My friend went back to tuning he gained 30whp ebcasue he was running 11:1 and it was too rich.


Well I dont have any cams in as yet and the runs were done with a 3" downpipe only, exhaust is fabbed up but not installed as yet (full 3" back).

Thanks...Andrew

If you don't have a full 3" exhaust on that car it will do exactly what you see. It will make power till 5500-6500 RPM and just fall off, it can't keep making HP cause the exhaust chokes it off. Run on the dyno with an open J-pipe and see what happens.

OH, and I had the exact same setup as you, 54trim compressor though and only 50lb injectors when I hit 305whp and 296ftlbs of tourque with a cat installed, no cams and no fans on the IC. You have a lot of power to gain.

Brent


No exhaust, just downpipe was used for the runs, so then wouldn't that mean it should still be making power?

At what PSI did you make those numbers, I'd assume it wasn't as much as 14psi, maybe 11-12psi and on what octane gas?

Thanks...Andrew

My run was 14.5psi on 92 octane gas.

Brent

also youre running a 10:1 motor... those are harder to tune, or so i've read. you could be detonating past 6k rpms with the 99F temp and the 90 octane gas.

personally, if i had the money.. i'd do a run at like 8 psi... then 10 psi.. then 14 or so... so you can see if it still does that drop off at 6k rpms with lower boost.

also youre running a 10:1 motor... those are harder to tune, or so i've read. you could be detonating past 6k rpms with the 99F temp and the 90 octane gas.
personally, if i had the money.. i'd do a run at like 8 psi... then 10 psi.. then 14 or so... so you can see if it still does that drop off at 6k rpms with lower boost.

Well both the builder of the engine and the dyno operator said that it wasn't detonation at that point, and with the A/F getting richer as it goes into that RPM range, would it still detonate? After seeing the graphs that was the first thing I asked, detonation and all, but like I said, both said that wasn't the case.

I'm not planning on running at that PSI daily, my daily setting is 8PSI. Will go back over the tune and re-visit the dyno in the new year, maybe this time using some race gas and at a cooler time :rolleyes: .

Thanks...Andrew

If it was that hot, well, you just can not expect good numbers. It's physically impossible. Hotter air = less dense = less power. Simple as that. Also, hotter air = more detonation prone = less power.

Same deal if you live at an altitude of 5500 ft; you won't get good numbers because its impossible due to the thinness of the air.

Lastly, when you adjusted the TPS, did you reset the TPS idle memory? The FSM says that you should and the procedure is in the FSM. If you don't, the car will run a little funky which would explain why your A/F is a bit erractic. You can search for it on here.

If it was that hot, well, you just can not expect good numbers. It's physically impossible. Hotter air = less dense = less power. Simple as that. Also, hotter air = more detonation prone = less power.
Same deal if you live at an altitude of 5500 ft; you won't get good numbers because its impossible due to the thinness of the air.
Lastly, when you adjusted the TPS, did you reset the TPS idle memory? The FSM says that you should and the procedure is in the FSM. If you don't, the car will run a little funky which would explain why your A/F is a bit erractic. You can search for it on here.


I guess I chose the wrong time of day to dyno :( and yes we did reset the ECU after adjusting the TPS, if by that you mean disconnecting the battery terminal, which I believe would clear any memory.

Thanks...Andrew

and yes we did reset the ECU after adjusting the TPS, if by that you mean disconnecting the battery terminal, which I believe would clear any memory.
Thanks...Andrew

No, there's a specific procedure, very similar to getting the car into timing mode. In the FSM, it's listed where it also tells you how to adjust the TPS.

Here is the idle memory procedure. Make sure the car is warmed up. Start the car with the TPS disconnected. Let it run for around 30 seconds and replug the TPS connector WHILE the car is running.

Go to a new set of 7 heat range plugs and make the run/s again.
Don not change anything until after the plugs have made a few runs.

It looks to me like the motor is breaking up at it's torque peak and hence the hp is falling off thereafter. Plugs faulty or too hot (heat range) and hence the AFR is decreasing (richer) as you keep the throttle open.

If it still does it after changing the plugs then make a progressive run (slowly open the throttle) in the same gear and see if you can feel any hesitation at the torque peak and thereafter.

You can also try this for a bit more detonation resistance;
Go down to a paint shop and see if you can get some toluene to buy. Keep it off your skin and pour about 1quart into your full fuel tank.

spdracerUT & tall1, thanks for the info on the procedure, if I recall properly we didn't do that while adjusting, so that's one mistake right there.

Thanks...Andrew

Go to a new set of 7 heat range plugs and make the run/s again.
Don not change anything until after the plugs have made a few runs.
It looks to me like the motor is breaking up at it's torque peak and hence the hp is falling off thereafter. Plugs faulty or too hot (heat range) and hence the AFR is decreasing (richer) as you keep the throttle open.
If it still does it after changing the plugs then make a progressive run (slowly open the throttle) in the same gear and see if you can feel any hesitation at the torque peak and thereafter.
You can also try this for a bit more detonation resistance;
Go down to a paint shop and see if you can get some toluene to buy. Keep it off your skin and pour about 1quart into your full fuel tank.


Wow I made a mistake when posting the spark plug info, it's actually #7's that I'm running, I made the correction in the original post.

From a layman's point of view (namely mine) it would seem like it was breaking up, which I just thought that it might be an ignition problem, I dont supposed a closer gap would help?

I'll try the toulene thing and see how it goes, from 90 octane how much would the increase be, 95-97???

Thanks...Andrew

Could well be an ignition related problem. Torque and resultant hp will not fluctuate with as high a frequency as that due to fuelling problems.
I dont' know much about the OEM ECU but from what I gather the MAF could also cause a rich state which could be fouling the plugs and be the root cause of an ignition problem like that............just guessing.
Go look for Peter Moody or his son if you cannot sort it yourself. Buy a Motec ECU while you visit them as well.
Toluene is a known carsinogen and is banned in most parts of the world........however some paint shops still use it as a thinner. It works well.