well....looks like we've finally got the AFC tuned in pretty good, and the numbers arn't that bad for a stock JDM motor. she put out 241.68hp, and 232.95lbs of torque!!! it's one CRAZY ride...the torque steer is insane now...ahh...gotta love it....

oh...that was on 91 octane, and 12 lbs of boost by the way >:^D

http://www.sleepermotorsport.com/images/brandondyno01.jpg

Whasssup Brandon...thats sooo tite....lots of hps for that kinda turbo...also no JWT guys...thats the tite stuff... just an apexi safc does all the work...lol..welps congrats ...keep burnign those vettes!

Yes Brandon it was pretty insane when on the dyno pushing the power out of that beast with what little octane you are running 91 piss gass. Anyway loved hearing it kick in for a stock motor,stock bb injectors,stock maf, it was more suprising then our NA JWT car that we ran at the shop. Im sorry but today was the day I had lost my faith in jwt na tuneing, and watching a bone stock SE-R with stock ECU make 123hp and our 10.1 Roller rocker make 123 hp with 126.2 torque, P.S it has a JWT computer and lets say 19+ timing. Oh well who says it aint fast, it seems to run nice. JWT pretty much good for TURBO cars only, im dyeing to see you put some more boost into it and some race fuel and shove it down the JWT peoples faces, JWT isnt god its how you tune your car. Tuning a afc lets see price comparasion afc new 200 bucks, dyno time 75 bucks. 275 bucks and you have a JWT ass whoopin car. btw every car is different JWT isnt perfect on tuning i love hearing how they throw out a generic program out, and cross there fingers, BTW i hear JWT tunes on the fly on the road with no dyno time. Gosh you wanna spend 500=600 bucks on that???? if i want a product id want it tuned to the max safe potentional not fly by the seat of your pants hp.

BTW People
call Ben at JWT ask him how they can tune a ecu by the seat of there pants and not touch a dyno untill after the ecu is in a car and user has problems, and how the drag cars get different programs then you do with different timing and fuel curves man i heard that and want to sack myself for spending soo much for soo little and keeping the good stuff that they do produce to certian people>=)

Doug doug doug, we all know that JWT ecu's are tuned for 15 degrees base timing. Running it at 19 is just plain dumb.

As for JWT tuning on the fly on the road? Wow, you know this because? Do you stalk Clark while he goes out in his car and tunes on the fly? Mike Kojima and Rob Cadle have done hundreds of dyno pulls to test just JWT ECU programs. But, I guess this is tuning on the fly.

The drag cars get different programs because they are just that, DRAG ONLY CARS. Which means they run ONLY race gas.

Talk is cheap Doug. You make your car with an AFC make more power than an equivalently equipped car with a JWT ECU and I will start looking into buying an AFC. Until then, I'll continue to love how I can just start my car right up and never worry about tuning it.


Terrin
92 SE-R

That's pretty impressive. I didn't have such good results with the S-AFC. I didn't have a dyno to tune on either. I've argued with people till I was blue in the face about that thing. I had the HKS S-AFR..which is equivilant to the AFC. I works, but you've got to have access to a dyno and should use a wideband O2 sensor to tune. Nice numbers guys... but, it'll never make the same amount of power,with all conditions the same,as a JWT tuned ECU or standalone. There's just more to it than adjusting fuel at RPM points. Don't get me wrong, it WORKS...but get this...
to do it right you need this..
AFC- say...300.00

Ignition timing conroller- 300.00
(or MSD Boost retard ignition)- 200.00

Adjustable fuel pressure regulator- 150.00

Dyno time- 100.00

Throw in shipping and you're close to a grand...
Now..
JWT tuning- 550.00

Bored MAF- 100.00

adjustable FPR- 150.00

With shipping...you're still cheaper than the other setup. AND...I can promise you..it'll make more power. I'm not knocking the way you all are doing it. I just don't understand why.
Travis

thats right the guys at sleeper make shit make hp stock motors making that kind of ponys is great. i would like to see anyone else put a jwt ecm in there car with nothing else done with all other things stock and make the hp we make . hell i will give the dyno time up for free but i dont think you can do it . if your up for it bring your jwt shit and we will show you that it dont make hp and we have the dyno and dyno sheets to show we can do it. its not talk on our end like everyone esle we have the facts.

That HKS unit is only +/- 15%. The AFC is +/- 50% with the ability to change mafs and data log your maf to see if it's been over run.

Originally posted by unlucky
That's pretty impressive. I didn't have such good results with the S-AFC. I didn't have a dyno to tune on either. I've argued with people till I was blue in the face about that thing. I had the HKS S-AFR..which is equivilant to the AFC. I works, but you've got to have access to a dyno and should use a wideband O2 sensor to tune. Nice numbers guys... but, it'll never make the same amount of power,with all conditions the same,as a JWT tuned ECU or standalone. There's just more to it than adjusting fuel at RPM points. Don't get me wrong, it WORKS...but get this...
to do it right you need this..
AFC- say...300.00

Ignition timing conroller- 300.00
(or MSD Boost retard ignition)- 200.00

Adjustable fuel pressure regulator- 150.00

Dyno time- 100.00

Throw in shipping and you're close to a grand...
Now..
JWT tuning- 550.00

Bored MAF- 100.00

adjustable FPR- 150.00

With shipping...you're still cheaper than the other setup. AND...I can promise you..it'll make more power. I'm not knocking the way you all are doing it. I just don't understand why.
Travis

Originally posted by Doug200T
btw every car is different JWT isnt perfect on tuning i love hearing how they throw out a generic program out, and cross there fingers, BTW i hear JWT tunes on the fly on the road with no dyno time. Gosh you wanna spend 500=600 bucks on that???? if i want a product id want it tuned to the max safe potentional not fly by the seat of your pants hp.

call Ben at JWT ask him how they can tune a ecu by the seat of there pants and not touch a dyno untill after the ecu is in a car and user has problems, ..

what are you talking about..? cross their fingers? No dyno time? seat of their pants? you have no idea what you are talking about and are making very incorrect statements in a public forum. "throw out a generic program" .. well, if by 'generic' you mean one program for a specific injector/MAF combo then yeah, they make generic programs. Thing is, they work because the ECU measures the Mass of air entering the engine which is completely independent of turbo size, trim, boost pressure, weather, altitude, temperature, backpressure, humidity, etc. JWT maps out the QA tables for the conditions that a specific injector and MAF can support and goes from there. This is the exact reason why the exact same program for 370cc injectors and Stock MAF that is usually used with t28s/t3s and base model FMAX kits can (and does) run my 370cc/stock MAF car with a T4 turbo and equal-length manifold with zero problems.

FYI, JWT programs are tuned extensively both on the dyno and on the street using sophisticated electronic datalogging, Nissan diagnostic computers, wideband O2 sensors, etc.. there is zero guessing or 'seat of the pants' tuning involved.

This is not intended to be "anti-AFC" or anything. On the contrary, I really like to hear about people being innovative and seeking other ways of making power and tuning. I'm glad there are people who will experiment and broaden the choices people have when they want to go turbo. It's awesome to hear about the power you guys are making without JWT's help, It just pisses me off when people make claims that are completely untrue; like saying JWT tunes by the seat of their pants without a dyno.

Thanks,
Andris Laivins

Honestly guys im supprised how the JWT community came here to back JWT up. HAVE you seen JWT tune there ecus?? are you there suckin clarks nut off while he's running a car up and down there street? I said he tunes good for TURBO cars only not NA. Gosh I call jwt up and ask them is the programs the same for the drag cars the same as the ones you distribute or are things changed. THEY WILL SAY ITS THE SAME no changes. Man I am a JWT user myself my turbo car makes Hp we are soon to find out today on the dyno. JWT 50lb prog cobra maf,50lb injection,T2.8 turbo,GTIR manifold. We are gonna compare two street setups today and see what will come close brandons 241hp run will be hard to catch b/c we are running the same turbos, same compression. only difference in our setups is im programed for more fuel. Guys i respect jwt, i just dont respect the way they can hash the community. P.S did you know the motormounts you guys usta get from them you cant get anymore???? and do you know why???? b/c Nismo only made them for the GTI-R, JWT never made a motor mount for SR20de fwd us spec car. They are modified Nismo GTIR motormounts. Ask JWT why they cant get anymore???? Nismo said why make sooo many motormounts if there are ruffly 3000 GTIRs running in the streets? the jap ppl said fuck that and said JWT cant have anymore unless they order a huge number of batches. you guys wanna praise some more????? check out the AEM ECM tell me 500 bucks more then a JWT ruffly and will give you more control for what you do. I wanna see some flames on this AEM ECM or my boasting about what I know is a fact. wouldnt you want to know if your about to shell out bank for a ECU and didnt really know why its not running like the big boys, there main sellers ben benividos, james Frair, and whoever ran there car with a soo called widely distributed ECU. Man i love this this is gonna be a fun thread,



==============================================
JWT vs AFC is a fun way to determine cheap hp for people with little or no money. I respect sleeper and Brian G for finding alternatives to make big hp out of sr20 motors cheap and easy. Prime candidate is Brandons Afc powered car.

Have you guys ever put the Prom of a JWT ecu on a Prom reader? and then have ECU tune data open it up and view JWT params?? well take two ecus with the same setup and wonder why things are different by 1 year? Updates? maybe found something that was wrong in the older ECU?? why jwt will charge you to upgrade the faulty older program they used to distribute? man i love that business practice

is this the unlucky that called me up to wonder about a ECU for sale for his BB manifold moded for T3 turbo?????? also the same unlucky that posted with me in the Motorheads forum of ls1's? ws6 beat by sr20 nissan

This is not intended to be "anti-AFC" or anything. On the contrary, I really like to hear about people being innovative and seeking other ways of making power and tuning. I'm glad there are people who will experiment and broaden the choices people have when they want to go turbo. It's awesome to hear about the power you guys are making without JWT's help, It just pisses me off when people make claims that are completely untrue; like saying JWT tunes by the seat of their pants without a dyno.

Thanks,
Andris Laivins


Andris Laivins, you may think that I am throwing this crap out but look at how a JWT lover like myself would hear how JWT tunes ecus. you would change your mind to. my friend anon good friend of mine that I talk to all the time is sport compact cars cover boy for september. you think his program is the same as everyone elses? PSHhhh nooo. He's one of my good friends and will continue to be but when you ask him how his car ticks well it ticks in a different beat.

Doug,

If you want to make a point, you need some facts. "What do you think of this? Huh? Huh? I know this and that about JWT what do you think of that?" doesn't help. If you think it so important that we know these things then you need to have some way of conveying these items so that they will be believeable. Typing in complete sentences and proper English would help too. You are reminding me of the way Mike Jez writes :)

if i told the truth it would hurt.

My dad is an ASE Master Machinest. He's been around engines longer than a lot of you have been alive. Well, He has a little saying that he tell his student once in a while. "It always runs the best just before it blows" Just something you might want to think about. Be smart with it. Engines aren't exactley cheap to replace.

295 bucks isnt cheap????? rethink

Did they have a wideband O2 sensor at this dyno? It would be interesting to see your a/f ratios.

295 bucks isnt cheap????? rethink

Originally posted by WhiteSER
Did they have a wideband O2 sensor at this dyno? It would be interesting to see your a/f ratios.

Yes there was and youd have to ask brandon he has them on disk

Well since I was there when they were dynoing the car I can tell u that the A/F ratios were "Safe" but since it's a AFC and they never work I guess those numbers are fake. I guess he straped his car down and didn't make any power at all. I'll let u guys in on a lil secret..... They weren't really tring to make most hp out of the car, just a lil tinkering. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by pln81
My dad is an ASE Master Machinest. He's been around engines longer than a lot of you have been alive. Well, He has a little saying that he tell his student once in a while. "It always runs the best just before it blows" Just something you might want to think about. Be smart with it. Engines aren't exactley cheap to replace.