I've found some a pretty cheap T25, and i'm wondering what it would take to put together a turbo system for me 93 SE-R. I'm have a fair amount of knowledge regarding turbochargers, and what would be required.

1. How much does an FMax turbo manifold run new? How much do u think I can find a used one for? If i can't find one cheap, i'll consider building my own custom manifold (thank you www.mandrelbending.com!).

2. I don't think it would be to tough to fabricate the turbo plumbing either. Any recommendations on materials? Has anyone come up with a cheap effective way?

3. Intercooler, intercooler, intercooler. What intercoolers have you guys found that will fit behind the bumper, that are readily available, and more importantly, cheap :)

4. Injectors - i've already got a walbro 255lph pump, but i'm wondering what is the boost limit on the stock injectors? What are common injector swaps? Whats the size of the stock injectors? What about the 300zx injectors? I've heard they are drop in replacements. Are my stock injectors low impedance?

I figure slap it all together, pick up a used rising rate fuel pressure regulator, and run a few pounds of boost. What do you guys think? Am I crazy? :)

.jon
just daydreaming about boost :D

Things I haven't considered:

1. Boost control
2. Downpipe of some type

recommendations are, of course, appreciated :)

Jon--

Hopefully, you found a Bluebird T25.

Manifold -- Get one from a Bluebird used, online. They can be had for $150 or so, tops.

Intercooler-- Again, Bluebird unit. $100-125 usually.

Injectors -- Nissan 370cc/min injectors will drop right into your rail. I found mine barely used, in the rail, for $225. YMMV. Don't try the stock 259cc/min units. Won't last long...

Oil/water lines -- You can just hack the stock ones (not the greatest), or fab up some SS ones with AN/NPT fittings. About $70-100 depending...

ECU -- Get a JWT ($550-ish) and not worry about it. If you like tinkering and know what you're doing, get an AFC. (Please, for the love of God, let's not start that argument again. I gave him the choice, figuring he has a mind of his own and can use it. Thank you much.)

Downpipe-- Local exhaust shop can whip you up one. Probably anywhere from $100 to $200, depending...

Boost controller -- you *could* just run stock boost for a while, you know.

$1,500 maximum outlay. Stock boost, no frills, just fun. :)

Others may have different/better takes on this. Anyone?

Originally posted by SERprise In WV
Hopefully, you found a Bluebird T25.

couldn't tell ya.

Manifold -- Get one from a Bluebird used, online. They can be had for $150 or so, tops.

bingo! great idea, i didn't realize they could be had so cheap. MUCH better than trying to fabricate one myself :)

Intercooler-- Again, Bluebird unit. $100-125 usually.

thats a little steep (not really, but a little). i think it'd be worth taking measurements and looking for some old starion intercooler or similiar for around $50 (or less). We've got a diesel turbo shop in town, so I can always have them cut it down to size if need be.

Injectors -- Nissan 370cc/min injectors will drop right into your rail. I found mine barely used, in the rail, for $225. YMMV. Don't try the stock 259cc/min units. Won't last long...

what do those come out of? i'd be willing to scrounge through a junk yard. then send them to rc engineering for a good cleaning/flow testing if i could save a few bucks.

Oil/water lines -- You can just hack the stock ones (not the greatest), or fab up some SS ones with AN/NPT fittings. About $70-100 depending...

excellent call, i hadn't thought about that. so i assume the T25 is oil and water cooled?


ECU -- Get a JWT ($550-ish) and not worry about it. If you like tinkering and know what you're doing, get an AFC. (Please, for the love of God, let's not start that argument again. I gave him the choice, figuring he has a mind of his own and can use it. Thank you much.)


i'd prefer to look over a compressor flow map, and adjust a rising rate fpr. i trust my ability to turn a screw more than to figure out installing and tuning an electronic air fuel controller. not to mention the price difference - yikes :)

Downpipe-- Local exhaust shop can whip you up one. Probably anywhere from $100 to $200, depending...

agreed. i wonder if i could find something on testpipes.com. that place is amazingly cheap.

Boost controller -- you *could* just run stock boost for a while, you know.

sure, for a while :D

$1,500 maximum outlay. Stock boost, no frills, just fun. :)

i think we can do better than that! but i agree, thats definatly a fair estimate. i love brain storming this kind of stuff. "maximum boost" got me all psyched up ;)

hey greg, with your 'stock boost, no frills, just fun' setup what kind of hp can i expect ... i would just do everything you stated, on a bone stock car ('98 se-r) and even run the stock exhaust (i want a super sleeper setup hehhee)..... what hp would you estimate and that corresponds with what estimated quarter mile........ just rough numbers i don't need crazy precision.... this sounds like a relatively cheap way to have a lot of fun :D

I have no idea as to HP levels, to be honest with you. Your stock exhaust will bottleneck some of that HP, too. Better to get some mandrel-bent 90-degree pipes and have a local exhaust shop fab you up a good 2.5" or 3.0" exhaust to let the turbo breathe.

Backpressure is Mr. Turbo's enemy. It will not only wear the turbochargers innards (high tech term there), but will as a result also sap much HP out of the process.

That exhaust will push you past the $1,500 mark (with JWT ecu), but not by much.

-GP-

Originally posted by SERprise In WV
I have no idea as to HP levels, to be honest with you.

when does the wastegate open on a T25?

On Bluebird T25s, it is set at 6.5psi, Jon.

On GTi-R T28 turbos, it is adjustable from 7-9 (I think). Somebody will correct that if I'm wrong.

-GP-

Zak did right around 200 whp on stock boost, 3" exhaust, and FMIC.

i would (and already have) trust JWTs computer over a FPR any day of the week. FPR is a quick, ghetto (IMO, YMMV) fix to getting more fuel in there. my car, with the T25, Forge Intercooler (thanks greg!) 3" exhaust, 370cc inj, and Tomei cams runs flawlessly (assuming the exhaust manifold to turbine housing gasket doesnt die, which it did, car sits right now) just like my friend's bone stock Audi S4 (except faster), no hickups, stalling, flat spots, just SMOOTH pull, all the way to redline. this kind of performance would be VERY hard to duplicate with just a FPR, and what about timing? your 9.5:1 CR will need a little timing retard, and JWT has already figured out where, and how to balance HP and safety. remember, JWT is plug and play, just take the harness off your old computer, and put it on the new one, install your injectors, make sure your timing is at 15, and youre done. just make sure you tell wolf the correct program you need.

$550 isnt shit when compared to a new motor and install. i have a 98, and i STILL went with the JWT.

Proceed at your own risk, you can do what you want, i am just giving you my opinion, but when you blow up your motor, i will be there to say "i told you so" :p

i would just get the injectors from a bluebird motor, or from www.nismoparts.com these things are nearly inpossible to find in a junkyard.

The 370cc injectors are in 300zx Twin Turbo's and Infiniti Q45's....I vote for getting the JWT computer too....

~Ryan

Originally posted by HotshtSR20
$550 isnt shit when compared to a new motor and install. i have a 98, and i STILL went with the JWT.

Proceed at your own risk, you can do what you want, i am just giving you my opinion, but when you blow up your motor, i will be there to say "i told you so" :p


You really should tell that to the hundreds, no thousands, of people running rising rate regulators driving on the road as I write this message. $550 is a LOT of money to me. That would cover a very nice 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust along with the turbo setup. Maybe a set of headers as well.

And those hundreds of thousands of people also aren't fortunate to have a company like JWT to program such a good ECU. You also fail to mention these people also run MAP sensors. $550 is jack shit when it comes to turbo setups. A set of headers? DO SOME RESEARCH BEFORE YOU GO TURBO because it obviously seems like you haven't been. RRFPR's are just a bandaid solution. I guess if you are happy half assing a turbo setup, then be my guest. I half assed some vacuum lines on my turbo setup and it came back to bite me in the ass. You want to half ass your fuel management? Sounds smart to me. <--- sarcasm. If you are going to go turbo, IMO, the MINIMUM is at least a good AFC. Which I personally don't recommend. IMO, if you are going turbo, just get a JWT ECU or a standalone. What's saving up another month just to have your car running reliably with no worries? If $550 is a LOT of money for you, you shouldn't be going turbo. This is what I'm starting to realize now after going turbo.


Terrin
92 SE-R


>You really should tell that to the hundreds, no thousands, of people running rising rate regulators driving on the road as I write this message. $550 is a LOT of money to me. That would cover a very nice 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust along with the turbo setup. Maybe a set of headers as well.

Originally posted by 92SE-R
And those hundreds of thousands of people also aren't fortunate to have a company like JWT to program such a good ECU. You also fail to mention these people also run MAP sensors.

Most of them, not all. Plenty of mass air vehicles running around with rrfpr's.

$550 is jack shit when it comes to turbo setups.

that would be the single most expensive component.

A set of headers? DO SOME RESEARCH BEFORE YOU GO TURBO because it obviously seems like you haven't been.


i've been "doing research" for the past 3 years. i always think in "set" because i'm so used to owning a v6. I'm sorry, let me rephrase: "an exhaust manifold" - better?

Theres only one way to really learn, right? To actually do it :)

RRFPR's are just a bandaid solution. I guess if you are happy half assing a turbo setup, then be my guest.

i'd say its more of a 3/4 ass attempt :)

I half assed some vacuum lines on my turbo setup and it came back to bite me in the ass.

details? i'm interested, seriously.

You want to half ass your fuel management? Sounds smart to me. <--- sarcasm.

lol, i know :)

If you are going to go turbo, IMO, the MINIMUM is at least a good AFC. Which I personally don't recommend.

:confused:
then don't recommend it ;)

IMO, if you are going turbo, just get a JWT ECU or a standalone.

i'd love to, $$$ allowing.

What's saving up another month just to have your car running reliably with no worries?

at 6.5psi of boost, i can run a rrfpr w/ absolutely no worries personally.

If $550 is a LOT of money for you, you shouldn't be going turbo. This is what I'm starting to realize now after going turbo.


i disagree. i think i could fabricate a turbo kit for somewhere between $1000 and $1250 to run around 7lbs of boost very reliably. Less than the price of a DET, let alone installation.
I think i'll call it "Project Lo-Buck" (blatenly stolen from matt @ dynamic racing). Once funds permit, i'll move to a standalone fuel management system, and up the boost.

Should be interesting, i'll keep u guys updated :)

Do these cars run fast? There's a saying, "CHEAP, FAST, GOOD, Pick two."

Fuel management is also the most important.

Also, the T25 you have, if you don't know if it's a Bluebird T25 or not, I'm 99% sure its off of a 2nd gen DSM. It won't bolt onto any existing turbo manifold for our cars. Have fun making it work.

I detonated the shit out of my motor when I sprang a vacuum leak from my boost gauge which was T'ed off of the FPR. It actually wasn't my fault but I should've known better. My friend had bought a used Autometer boost gauge from someone online. Mine had not come in the mail yet, so I borrowed his. Those of you with boost gauges will know what I am talking about. They give you a rubber vacuum line and a hard plastic line to run into the car. Well, to convert from the rubber line to the hard plastic line, they have a brass fitting. Turns out this brass fitting started to leak after 4 psi. I ran lean and detonation city. Luckily the SR20DE is such a bulletproof motor so my piston didn't pop out and say peek-a-boo. I should've just taken the brass fitting out in the first place, ran the hard line into the rubber line and used 5-7 zip ties to hold them together like I do now. It doesn't leak one bit. It sounds kind of ghetto but it's the only surefire way I could think of doing it while not leaking or popping off after time.

You talk about running a RRFPR at 6.5 psi with no problems. The thing is, on very cold nights, you will run way lean. You will still have the same amount of pressure for the FPR but you do not realize how much MAF voltage can go up on a cold night. The RRFPR doesn't take this into account. HOt days you will run rich.

At least with an AFC, you can adjust y our A/F mixture using a wideband O2 sensor for tuning. Which in turn leads to more money and in the end, it would've been more economical to get a JWT ECU in the first place.


Terrin
92 SE-R

stand alones will cost about $2000 by the time it is running. unless you want to say "hey, i tuned this thing by myself!" and brag, go with the JWT, $550 is pretty cheap, like i said, compared to a new motor (which will more than likely happen) and when compared to all other alternatives, is a bargain.

RRFPRs cost around $100 (guesstimate, i really dont know, i dont have a honda :p) and require a lot more work than removing 3 10mm bolts. they are a band-aid.

AFC's cost about $400 (another guesstimate, dont have a DSM), and still require more work than 3 10mm bolts.

Stand-alones: well, mr moneybags, should we take the golden porsche today, or the platinum ferrari? :D