Annie's NX has always had a strange sway bar clearance issue in two places. The first being adequate bar to control arm clearance and the second, bar to tie rod clearance. We managed to get away with it up until the last Button Willow race where the sway bar smacked the tie rod, bending it. This occurred with the end links pretty much bottomed out in their shortest position.

Now, after installing the bump steer kit it seems pretty much impossible for the sway bar and the tie rod to co-exist peacefully, forcing us to ditch the front bar. I've turned down a spare set of end links by .350" to decrease the sway bar angle, bringing it closer to the control arm to free up some room. However, I've had no luck with this either.

Annie is going to take the bar back to Progress to have it checked against the jig. In the mean time though, I am curious if anyone is currently running a front sway bar in combination with the bump steer kit properly installed, with the tie rod located under the upright.

Thanks

Chuck,

When's the last time you did a thorough ride height check and consequent inspection of the angles of the suspension bits as a result of lowering?

All the real race cars ( :) ) run without the front swaybar: you don't get binding and you take weight off the nose. It also makes changing axles and motors easier.

In typical monkey-like fashion, my and Derricks bump steer kit got installed upside down, or backwards, depending on how you look at it. According to Jason I should have massive bump steer issues, when, in fact, I *think* I have less... One thing is for sure, my tire wear sure got a lot more even on my (and Derricks) cars.

Maybe this is one time where monkey beats robot? <shrug>

Chuck,

When's the last time you did a thorough ride height check and consequent inspection of the angles of the suspension bits as a result of lowering?

Derrick and I did a quick comparison in ride height measuring from the ground to a spot on the subframe this past weekend. We found that Annie's NX is about 5/8" higher than Derrick's Sentra. In my mind, this should give the NX more clearance between the sway bar and the tie rod end and less clearance for Derrick's Sentra, but why is it that our sway bar hit at Button Willow and no one else’s did?

Yeah, it's funny, my Sentra sits 5/8" lower at the same subframe location but if you look at the car from the front/side/or anywhere, you'd swear that her NX sat at least an inch lower... The B13 is not the most aerodynamic of beasts out there. That's ok though, it still looks better.

Back to the topic though. I'll try to re-install the bump steer kit soon, and i'll let you know on the results...

derrick

In typical monkey-like fashion, my and Derricks bump steer kit got installed upside down, or backwards, depending on how you look at it. According to Jason I should have massive bump steer issues, when, in fact, I *think* I have less... One thing is for sure, my tire wear sure got a lot more even on my (and Derricks) cars.

Maybe this is one time where monkey beats robot? <shrug>
:rolleyes: This time its worse than a table.

All the real race cars ( :) ) run without the front swaybar: you don't get binding and you take weight off the nose. It also makes changing axles and motors easier.
And the better handling cars have them.

errr, here we go with the age old debate.

* steps aside *

Back to the topic though. I'll try to re-install the bump steer kit soon, and i'll let you know on the results...

derrick


Yeah let us know, I'd hate for Tom to find out the hard way at nationals.

On another note, I still havent had a chance to get the sway bar over to progress yet.

And the better handling cars have them.

Monkey will beat robot in this fight!

so you're keeping it that way?

I'm going to measure what my bump steer is today/tonight and I'll report back.

All the real race cars ( :) ) run without the front swaybar: you don't get binding and you take weight off the nose. It also makes changing axles and motors easier.


hmm i dont ever recall having to remove my sway bar or having issues with removing the motor or axles with my sway installed.:confused:

PRELIMINARY RESULTS:

So I went over to Tom's today and here is what we measured. We took Tom's car and measured it's current ride height, removed the front springs and jacked the car up evenly (from side to side) starting at 1/2" above ride height and going to 1" below ride height. We measured toe at each half inch interval (negative values are toe in, positive are toe out). The setups consisted of the following: Tom's = Jason's Bump Steer kit installed 'backwards' with 3 spacers (3/8" total). Derrick's = Jason's Bump Steer kit intalled 'backwards' no spacer between heim and hub. Spec = Jason's Bump Steer kit installed to spec (heim mounted below hub) with no spacer. Beyond Tom's = Jason's Bump Steer kit installed 'backwards' with 6 spacers (3/4" total).

R.H. | Tom's | Derrick's | Spec'd | Beyond Tom's
+0.5" | 0 | -3/16 | -5/16 | 1/32
0.0" | 1/16 | 1/16 | 1/16 | 1/16
-0.5" | 3/32 | 5/16 | 11/16 | 3/16
-1.0" | 7/32 | 9/16 | 1 1/4 | 3/8

So what does this mean? Judging by the toe changes in travel, i'd say the monkey wins. Jason, Tom, and I will be doing the same test on my car in some time a couple of weeks from now and we'll post the final results...

MONKEY'S RULE!!!!!!

Explains the even tire wear I'm getting.

Are you certain it's hitting the tie rod? Have you removed the spring and ran it through all the travel to make sure?

From what I saw at the track when it was bent, it didn't look like the sway bar hit it because the sway bar would have had to have moved farther than the tire has clearance left in the fender. Of course, this is just a guess from a quick look at it, but maybe the reason no else has bent the tie rods is because it doesn't hit. Don't forget the metal in the tie rod will want to spring back a little after getting hit and bent (hehe), so the sway bar would have to moved even farther through the tie rod. Plus, you would have at least had some serious steering binding issues from the lighter contacts that would have happened as well. Maybe she just clipped a curb wrong and bent it that way?

Remember, the witness mark could have just as easily came after it bent as before.

PRELIMINARY RESULTS:

So I went over to Tom's today and here is what we measured. We took Tom's car and measured it's current ride height, removed the front springs and jacked the car up evenly (from side to side) starting at 1/2" above ride height and going to 1" below ride height. We measured toe at each half inch interval (negative values are toe in, positive are toe out). The setups consisted of the following: Tom's = Jason's Bump Steer kit installed 'backwards' with 3 spacers (3/8" total). Derrick's = Jason's Bump Steer kit intalled 'backwards' no spacer between heim and hub. Spec = Jason's Bump Steer kit installed to spec (heim mounted below hub) with no spacer. Beyond Tom's = Jason's Bump Steer kit installed 'backwards' with 6 spacers (3/4" total).

R.H. | Tom's | Derrick's | Spec'd | Beyond Tom's
+0.5" | 0 | -3/16 | -5/16 | 1/32
0.0" | 1/16 | 1/16 | 1/16 | 1/16
-0.5" | 3/32 | 5/16 | 11/16 | 3/16
-1.0" | 7/32 | 9/16 | 1 1/4 | 3/8

So what does this mean? Judging by the toe changes in travel, i'd say the monkey wins. Jason, Tom, and I will be doing the same test on my car in some time a couple of weeks from now and we'll post the final results...


from these measurements, it seems as though the stock tierod end would have yielded the same (or nearly so) results as toms. the center of the stock tierod end piviot is ~3/4" above the knuckle.


could you also compare to a stock tierod end?

Actually, looking at it previously. I would say that the stock location is pretty much the middle between mine and Tom's - where mine is maybe an 1/8" to 1/4" lower than stock, and Tom's is 1/4" to 1/8" higher...

which side does it hang to?