having trouble finding axxis ultimates for my 1993 se-r without abs. every site either doesnt sell ultimates for my car or only sells them for cars with abs. can someone point me in the right direction? oh and how much do people pay for carbotech p+ pads?

Do yourself a favor and just get Bobcats from Matt at Carbotech. For street, ultimates are about a 7, bobcats are 10 out of 10. If that's a B13 and not an nx2k, get done the swap to AD22vf front calipers/rotors (off nx2k)

i dont think less dusting is worth the extra money. i dont care about my wheels looking good. i plan on running through pads quite often so the price of carbotechs arent worth it to me. im not planning on doing the ad22 swap just yet since i have no problems with my brakes overheating.

The ABS fact shouldn't matter for the Se-r calipers.

sweet, thanks

All B13 SE-Rs had the same brakes ABS or not.

The pad number you want is #509.

It ain't the dusting, featherweight, it's the pad performance. The low dusting is a nice feature, but has nothing to do with choosing such a pad. The AD22vf's (and the Bobcats) give you MUCH greater control. But if you're just commuting or drag racing and not actually interested in performance driving, the cheaper ultimates will do you just fine.

It ain't the dusting, featherweight, it's the pad performance. The low dusting is a nice feature, but has nothing to do with choosing such a pad. The AD22vf's (and the Bobcats) give you MUCH greater control. But if you're just commuting or drag racing and not actually interested in performance driving, the cheaper ultimates will do you just fine.

like i said, i dont have any problems with fade right now so the ad22s can wait until i do. bobcats give greater control over what? the pedal? lines and fluid do a better job of that. im looking for pads that bite hard and wont glaze over from heat. the ultimates satisfy that need with less cost than carbotech pads. both of my friends (b14 and g20) have ultimates and cant say enough about them. even under constant hard braking, to the point where the rotors take a few minutes to stop glowing, the ultimates hold up. through searching i even found that the ultimates are right there with the equivalent carbotech in terms of performance but the carbotechs offer less dust, and that came from a carbotech vendor. i do commute with my b13 yes, drag race? no. i drive on mountain roads. to put it in mainstream terms i drive on the "touge" just to let you know.

I've driven a B13 with the NX2000 upgrade and without, with Bobcats and with Ultimates (also Porterfileds and Green Stuff). I've driven on the track and on the street. I'm interested in performance driving on the track and "spirited driving" on the street.

Here are my opinions on Bobcats and Ultimates based on my experiences:

1) The Bobcats and Ultimates perform at the same level on the street. In terms of stopping power, they are comparable, and in terms of fade, neither will exhibit pad fade on any street driven NA B13 unless the driver is really out of control.
2) Ulitmates produce much more dust than Bobcats. Bobcats dust like OEM pads -- that's a good thing if you are interested in dusting -- and may well indicate that the Bobcats will last longer than the Ultimates, perhaps making them just as cost effective on a pennies per mile basis. Time will tell.
3) The Bobcats can be finnicky to bed in. It took me several thousand miles of driving and at least 3 attempts over time to bed them in before they started to stop the car properly. Now they work great -- just as good as my Ultimates did from day one. Until properly bedded, I felt that my Bobcats stopped the car so poorly that they were a negative safety factor.

All things considered, I feel that the stock calipers and rotors on my daily driver B13 are more than adequate for street driving. I do not plan to upgrade to the NX2000 brakes for this car. But if the car were to be driven on a road course, a brake upgrade would be essential -- I wouldn't even think about it, I would just do it.

From the conversation, my guess is that you've not developed your driving skills to the level to tell the difference in brake control at the limit. That is NOT a slam, just an observation. Billc has driven the SAME car with the different pads, so I will defer to his judgment concerning this application; and for commuting style driving I agree the ultimates will indeed be virtually indistinguishable from the bobcats. You would NOT use bobcats on the track, but they're fine for taking the commute car to the autocross. Bill, you simply did not seat the bobcats correctly. I followed Matt's directions to the letter, and they were right there right now after burn-in. Did you use new rotors? If not, you trashed the bobcats with crud (one of my favorite technical terms :rolleyes: ) from the previous pads. Finally, I might even agree with you for keeping the stock fronts for commuter driving - the ad22vf's by themselves, at least in my experience, provide a bit too much front bias for my taste; I still need to find a proper way to send more to the rears. COULD do that with Maximas in the back, but the simpler solution would be an adjustable proportioning valve, as there's MORE than enough brake power from those little stock things in the rear.

Bedding the Bobcats is a bit tricky. Best results seem to come from using new or freshly turned rotors.

You can glaze the pads from getting them too hot in the bedding process. I have done this, particularly early in our working with it (I was the 2nd person ever to test it), and I bedded them like I do our track pads, which glazed the crap out of them. The result was a lousy, soft pedal and a car that just didn't want to stop well until that glaze wore off. Initially, I was disappointed with the pads, until I put more miles on them and wore that glaze off. Now the standard procedure is: fresh rotors, 5-6 stops from ~45 mph, let them cool off, drive normally.

I will attest that Bobcast last MUCH longer than Ultimates. This is likely from the much higher density of the Bobcat friction material. My mother (who drives like a 68yo grandmother, because she is) wore through a set of Ultimates on her Jeep in less than 20,000 miles. I installed a set of Bobcats that should likely be the last set of pads she'll need. I expect 40-50,000 miles from them.

As I said a while back in another thread, I work in the braking industry. I can pretty much get whatever pads I want for free. Bobcat pads are on all my cars, all my brothers cars and my mom's Jeep.

Okay, this time I'll restrain myself, Matt - - - but I hadn't thought to factor in pad life because as you know I'm only maybe 7k into the bobcats. The simple math is that if bobcats cost twice as much but last twice as long, they cost the same as ultimates for a far superior pad.
I'll retell the story just because it's worth telling: A friend had Matt make up a set of Bobcats for his Banks turbo conversion Excursion - TRANSFORMED the truck's brakes, and it was the only brake mod. Amazing.

I've got the pads front and rear on my Superduty. I don't need trailer brakes when towing an open trailer.

Thanks, Matt and Jerry, for an informative exchange.

I did use new rotors when installing my Bobcats. But, after reading Matt's description in this thread of the proper bedding in procedure for Bobcats, I believe that I was too agressive and glazed the new pads. I think the instructions said to make 3-4 stops from 45 MPH. I could not believe that that would do the trick, so I went overboard. They are fine now, but Jerry, you are right, I did not bed the pads properly.

I raised the issue of cost per mile in my first post. See #2. It's great to hear Matt confirm that the Bobcats will last longer than the Ultimates.

I've done my share of threshold braking, but I'll admit that I can always learn something new. WRT the Bobcats and threshold braking, they are great now that they are bedded in properly. I feel like I get good modulation on the street with the stock calipers and have good balance with braking front to rear. With the pads initially glazed, I could not even approach front wheel lockup so threshold braking was not really an issue.

With respect to the modulation advantages of the NX2000 setup, yes, that is a consideration. But it is balanced by the question of braking bias front to rear, as Jerry points out, and the added weight of the caliper and rotor which, at least theoretically, detract from ride, handling and acceleration. For me, the major advantage of the NX2000 brakes is the added resistance to fade, which is not a factor on the street.

Again, these are my observations based on my experience and offered humbly for the consideration of those that drive these wonderful little cars. I've learned a lot from this thread -- thanks again for a good exchange of experiences.

Enjoy the Ride.

Bill

PS-> Jerry -- have you thought about looking for a rear pad with a higher coefficient of friction than the pad you are now running?

I've had the same set of Ultimates on the front of my car for at least three years. Translated to miles, that's maybe 30k or more, including the 2003 SE-R Convention trackday and loads of autocrossing. They do last.

More telling is that I'm also on my second or third set of front rotors with these pads. They're not rotor friendly. Fortunately, Brembo AD18 rotors are under $50/pair.

My street wheels are gunmetal, which is very close to the color of brake dust, so not much anguish there. I like the Ultimates, but I may try Bobcats next...if these Ultimates will ever die.

That's the most I've heard of Ultimates lasting. Normally, I'd say if you got 20K out of them you were lucky. You must not brake very much.

And I forgot to mention the rotors on my moms Jeep were pretty severely worn after that set of Ultimates. Definitely not usable anymore.