http://www.sr20deforum.com/043002/moses/

He's replacing thinks like his fenders and hood so I thought it would be a good time to get pics of his IC piping. Galvanized Lowe's fencepost and Lowe's PVC rubber couplers. I'll get him to comment on it. username on forums is blmose.

damn, fenceposts??? that looks really nice for a ghetto setup, wanna comment on cost?:p

Is that fence piping? It doesnt look to shabby . Prolly pretty cheap/cost effective, i guess whatever does the job. let us know how the difference is. That piping must be heavy though? Was that home depot pvc bends as well?

Larry

Aight people here's the low down on my Home Depot Racing Ghetto Special setup. The fence post you see is 2" galvanized steel (WHICH DOES NOT RUST!! WHY AREN'T MORE THINGS GALVANIZED?) Using a metal carbide blade in a chop saw or mitre box, I wacked off appropriatelengths of post. Then used Home depot 90 degree bends rubber bends to connect everything. The one place where you see the white, 140 degree bend near the passenger headlight is a PVC bend. The metal pipe fits nice and tight up in the PVC bend and I liberally epoxied the pipes in place and haven't had a problem since. Here's a price breakdown

8' fence post - $8.95
4 90 degree bends - bout $5 each
PVC 140 degree part - hell I don't know, like $3
Galvanized metal strips holding IC up, like $2

That's about it. This setup is not fool proof will blow apart under extreme conditions like track use (Convention '01). However for street use it's been FINE for about 2 years now. All that is needed to beef it up would be to bead roll the ends of the pipes, get real silicone bends and heavy duty hose clamps and secures the IC and piping with a few more brackets. THen it would be fool proof.

God i love that setup. you really should make or get them to give you some stickers to put on the car somewhere :D. But remember even galvanizing rusts ***. Like check the ends where you cut it, cause its just a coating. I dont suspect it rusts that quickly but 20 years down the road it might ;)

wheres the intercooler from?

I think you can powdercoat the pipes and rust is no problem. Besides you only spent 50 bucks for the piping.



Bryan

that is a bluebird DET top mount IC, if im not mistaken

That's right. It is a BB IC.

:) Cheers to Ben (Sentra) :)


Q: Do you smell what Ben's Sentra is cooking?

A: Tires.

Double cheers,
Charlie :)

Originally posted by bmoses
That's right. It is a BB IC.

Are you still runnint stock boost Ben?
~Ryan

Ben, did you gan any hp, throttle response, or lag by going front mount with the bb intercooler? Was it worth the time/effort/+money? Do you recommend this to others?

Yes I am still running stock boost and I don't have any immediate plans of running a boost controller in the near future. I"m working on non mechanical things about the car at this time.

I didn't notice any greater lag time from mounting the IC up front like this. Altought there is probably a negligibly measureable amount of increased lag, it would take an instrument to detect it. I cannot tell a difference. So that is good. as far as performance goes, moving the IC up front didn't seem to garner a noticeable increase in HP, although there probably is a measurable amount of that gained as well. What it did do was not let the IC get heat soaked. In the summertime I could tell a distinct difference between the non-heat-soaked IC in the top mount position and when the top mount became heat soaked. This happened at stop lights in the dead of summer in California. There was a noticeable (seat of my pants noticeable) difference. With the IC up front this never happens. On very cold days I can detect an increase in HP whereas with the top mont setup the temp of the day didn't really matter.

Finally, I think the reason there's not that feeling of massive increases in HP, in general, is because of the small (t25), small IC, and low boost. Take this scenario for exampl. Say I had a T3/T04E running 16 pounds and a larger, better IC but had it top mounted. Say I drove this for a while and got used to it. Then, say I front mounted that nice ass IC. I think, given the parameters that I just defined, I would see a greater increase in power ALL THE TIME.

Would I recommend this? Yes. More for the peace of mind it gives you knowing your not stuffing 250 degree air into your engine and I felt it's where the IC *belongs*. It also provides a good platform for upgrading later down the road. Oh, and it's a great conversation peice because people who know what they are looking at will look at you with the weirdest expressions on the their face... like they can't believe what they're seeing! :)

Nice Job Ben, I like DIY guys who aren't afraid to try stuff and save money to boot. I have a couple of questions/comments for you. Do you think that using PVC fitting for all your bends would be beneficial? I would think that the epoxied connections would be less likely to blow apart during track use. Cost wise I think you'd be pretty close, those rubber fitting's aren't quite as cheap as the PVC ones last time I checked. In regards to your air filter and MAF, why not bring in cooler air from the get go by piping down and putting that filter somewhere where cooler air is? I would guess that is because the turbo is so damn hot that there would be little benefit. As far as your MAF goes, why not mount that on the end of the system like it originally is, just before the intake manifold but before all those vac hoses. I would think this would be more logical since it will read more acurately than being on the other end. I suppose it wouldn't matter, however, if you had a leak in your IC and turbo piping somewhere, your MAF wouldn't care because it is reading air just before the intake manifold. If you were reading air flow just after the filter then it could read incorrectly because it would read air coming in but would not be accounting for air lost in the leak. I think I recall that you can't put the MAF after a turbo but I can remember why that is?

actually, a cold air for a turbo car would help a lot. cooler air is less likely to change temperature than hot air, so it wont get heated up as much, and since it is colder to begin with, an equal increase in the temp of cold air vs hot, it will be colder after being compressed.

my inlet pipe goes straight out from the turbo, and the filter is below the battery, it is pretty cold there, but i get nervous when it rains.

also, why is everyone using 2.5" piping? 2" would be better for most turbo cars below 350 whp.

check out my ride! (http://pacific.photoisland.com/servlet/com.arcsoft.LoginNew?com=arcsoftBanner&awp=index4.html&DIRECT=show&USERNAME=hotshtsr20&WHO=guest) password is turbo, to see my IC piping with JCwhitney 2" bends, home depot couplers, and a hacksaw. total cost, ~$80

Originally posted by Toolapcfan
Nice Job Ben, I like DIY guys who aren't afraid to try stuff and save money to boot. I have a couple of questions/comments for you. Do you think that using PVC fitting for all your bends would be beneficial? I would think that the epoxied connections would be less likely to blow apart during track use. Cost wise I think you'd be pretty close, those rubber fitting's aren't quite as cheap as the PVC ones last time I checked. In regards to your air filter and MAF, why not bring in cooler air from the get go by piping down and putting that filter somewhere where cooler air is? I would guess that is because the turbo is so damn hot that there would be little benefit. As far as your MAF goes, why not mount that on the end of the system like it originally is, just before the intake manifold but before all those vac hoses. I would think this would be more logical since it will read more acurately than being on the other end. I suppose it wouldn't matter, however, if you had a leak in your IC and turbo piping somewhere, your MAF wouldn't care because it is reading air just before the intake manifold. If you were reading air flow just after the filter then it could read incorrectly because it would read air coming in but would not be accounting for air lost in the leak. I think I recall that you can't put the MAF after a turbo but I can remember why that is?

The reason you can't put the maf right by the intake manfiold is because you have to vent the BOV into the piping before the turbo, and if you did that with the MAF neaer the BOV then you would read the same air twice....get it?

~Ryan

Damn, I'm geekin here... all these people talking about my intake :) Moving the MAF close to the manifold like that began sounding the best idea I've heard of and I was wondering why nobody has done that yet. Until I read Ryan's post. He's right. The engine should run good under accleration/boost, but once the recirc valve opened it would meter ..... wait a minute I'm bustin some paper and pencil out here to draw up some diagrams......

ok.... I just drew some things out. I made a crude diagram of my particular/typical turbo intake setup. It seems to me that if the MAF was placed AFTER the RECIRC valve and thus only saw the air entering the plenum, in essence, removing the whole RECIRC system and it's effects from the equation, this might work. Also, I would think having the MAF in this location would allow the air/fuel mapping to be more accurate since all leaking, heating, and distortion of air would have already taken place. If MAF was placed before RECIRC valve then it would, in fact, re-meter the air, but if it was after the RECIRC it would not see the air again.

I think MAF after the RECIRC might work...

Any comments??

if im not mistaken, a MAF sensor bases its readings off of a standard pressure(1 atmosphere or thereabouts), and if you shove pressurized air through it, it will not read correctly, therefore must be placed before the turbo on the intake tube

Ben...may I ask why you are doing this? if she works she works....you acctually want the BOV as close to the TB as possible from what I understand....so if you put the MAF between the BOV and the TB you would be defeating the purpose...you ever heard the term "KISS"(keep it simple silly) ;) And what would you bolt your air filter to? I dont think the MAF would work well under pressure...although if you changed your setup to an SDS system you could use a MAP on there! That would be the shit! ;)

~Ryan

All I got to say is to myself is "DUH!!!" Sorry bout the retardness guys :rolleyes: