I see Rob closed that thread :tongue:
Was just talking to my kid who has a GTI - this piece was engineered for the flex of those hatchbacks; although you can't see them there are also reinforcing pieces behind the grid to make it less flexible (bowing). I supposed something like this might help a sedan like the classic B13, but only to reinforce the existing thin crossbars behind the seat. Not sure it would get those cars much, but THIS will stiffen a hatchback.
http://www.tomassporttuning.com/stressbrace.php
Jer

oooooooo thats nice.

5.6 lbs? it looks like its a bit thin? it doesnt seem that flat aluminum like that wouldnt just bow under lateral stress. It should be reinforced with chromo tubing, in my opinion. Looks like a cool piece though, someone should make some for b13s.

And it won't obstruct your view :tongue:

I think the one lance made would work well if you were to connect it to a rear strut bar.

mmmm, thats hot!

that is not a c pillar bar.

yeah i guess so. another piece that does absolutley nothing. but thats just my opinion.. but hey... someone said that this would stiffen up the back... so someone else agreed... and there it is.

[QUOTE][5.6 lbs? it looks like its a bit thin? it doesnt seem that flat aluminum like that wouldnt just bow under lateral stress. It should be reinforced with chromo tubing, in my opinion. Looks like a cool piece though, someone should make some for b13s.
/QUOTE]

naw sorry will.. if someone makes this.. they will get ridiculed and banned... just like everything else on this forum. no one will ever make anything for our cars because of the community.

and this isnt just my opinion.. thats a fact.

naw sorry will.. if someone makes this.. they will get ridiculed and banned... just like everything else on this forum. no one will ever make anything for our cars because of the community.

and this isnt just my opinion.. thats a fact.


Stop being so bitter about it. No one ridiculed you, just simply asked how it will increase structual rigidity, and you weren't able to show how, and pretty much said it looks cool.

I know you've heard it before, if you can't take the criticism, then don't post it. If you made this bar and you're happy with it, so be it, let everyone else talk about how much it sucks, if it makes you happy, that's what matters.

Stop being so bitter about it. No one ridiculed you, just simply asked how it will increase structual rigidity, and you weren't able to show how, and pretty much said it looks cool.
I did not understand that either. I just wanted more information, honest questions, no hate whatsoever. The thread got closed.

As for that brace pictured in this thread.....

That looks to me like it is doing the same thing as an IKEA brace in the B13 chassis. It fills in the "hole" between the rear strut towers, and keeps the car from flexing at an angle. Ie...like if you had an open ended rectangular box. Push it with your finger, exert load on it at an angle, and it would flex sideways so to speak. The IKEA brace, and the one pictured would resist that motion(?).

I could be wrong. :melonscratcher:

not bitter at all...never was.. i knew the my bar would fall to the fate as everything else on this forum does. i just wasnt going to let my it happen to my bar..so i had it closed. im just posting my opinion about what this guy posted. thats all. im allowed that right? i just thinks its as useless as my bar is. its actually really funny to me. when i see stuff like this happen.. i just bow my head a laugh to myself on the situation of how things operate here.

come one! come all!!!!!! this is the parade of the internet mechanics.. and scentists. we are handing out free degree's.

That looks to me like it is doing the same thing as an IKEA brace in the B13 chassis. It fills in the "hole" between the rear strut towers, and keeps the car from flexing at an angle. Ie...like if you had an open ended rectangular box. Push it with your finger, exert load on it at an angle, and it would flex sideways so to speak. The IKEA brace, and the one pictured would resist that motion(?).

I could be wrong.


that was the same priciple behind my bar. and if you wanted more info.. its all over the internet. i did my research.

Hm. I'm no engineer, but this is pretty obvious. Of course it's not a "C pillar bar" which is why I put it in quotes. The POINT of the coat rack from the other thread and this thing that the gti racers buy by the dozen is to reduce the "shoebox without ends" twisting forces that occur when the two rear suspensions experience differential forces. In other words, the car twists. The strength is in the structure, not the thickness. For those of you who can read at more than the sixth grade level, you will have read that there are additional strengthening bars behind some of the cross pieces to resist compression from the sides - as in when both suspensions receive relatively equal strong compression loads. Works like the AT rstb in that case. I'm really pleased most of you seem to get this; it's REALLY simple. Just think about what happens to the body of the car when the car turns or hits a bump, and where the twists and compressions will occur. This stuff is a no brainer for the German car crowd - but more of those guys are racing their toys? Finally, I do agree with good guy Serban - if you like a racoon tail on your antenna, do it. But you're deluding yourself if you believe it improves the car's handling.
This kind of thing would perhaps benefit the NX2k hatchback; it's probably overkill for the classic (I'd probably just bolt some steel rods to the existing sheet "x" behind the seat to keep it from flexing).
Lance, I'm really sorry you feel stepped on, but your piece, to the best of my knowledge, will not stiffen the car to improve handling; the forces at work aren't being resisted at that point with that structure. It takes an "X" brace of some sort to do that. As I said in my very first post in your thread, I'd be HAPPY to be wrong, that's how we learn, but I didn't see a convincing argument (actually, I didn't see ANY argument) to convince me otherwise.
Jer

that was the same priciple behind my bar. and if you wanted more info.. its all over the internet. i did my research.
Then why not share it with us? Why not include it in your thread? Honestly, I just wanted further explanation. Either empiracle evidence, or just common sense engineering that I could understand.

Ie...the IKEA brace makes perfect common sense engineering to me.

________________________

Jerry,

In the case of your brace, it is acting like an IKEA brace teamed up with an RSTB.

hey its cool... becuase bottom line.. i dont care about convincing anyone. i let people make thier own decisions and think what they wanna think. like i said form the beggining..everyone has their own opinion... and everyone is an expert here. i was done with this whole thing last weekend.

If you were done with it last weekend then why continue to post your sarcastic bullshit bashing people on the forum?

would that brace be stiffened by punching round holes in the cross beams. Would loose weigt also.

Hopefully Lance will eventually be capable of getting beyond the personal stuff and move on to analysis of the engineering issues.

Will, don't know if drilling it would actually strengthen it; likely some would not hurt it. As I noted, I'm not an engineer and don't have the physics training for that level of analysis. As it stands now though, it's only 5.6 lbs.

Shawn - had to go look again at your 'ultimate suspension reference' to learn what the IKEA brace was - VERY cute and elegant idea. Don't have a clue why I "remembered" an "X" brace over that hole, which would pretty much negate the need for such, but I'd wager said bigass hunk of cardboard (or whatever) over that hole would indeed benefit the structural integrity of a Classic (in addition to the AT rstb). Lessee - pressboard: $7. GTI stressbrace: $275. Lemme think about this - - - -

Hopefully Lance will eventually be capable of getting beyond the personal stuff and move on to analysis of the engineering issues.

Will, don't know if drilling it would actually strengthen it; likely some would not hurt it. As I noted, I'm not an engineer and don't have the physics training for that level of analysis. As it stands now though, it's only 5.6 lbs.

Shawn - had to go look again at your 'ultimate suspension reference' to learn what the IKEA brace was - VERY cute and elegant idea. Don't have a clue why I "remembered" an "X" brace over that hole, which would pretty much negate the need for such, but I'd wager said bigass hunk of cardboard (or whatever) over that hole would indeed benefit the structural integrity of a Classic (in addition to the AT rstb). Lessee - pressboard: $7. GTI stressbrace: $275. Lemme think about this - - - -
Well, it was inspired by pressboard over the back of an IKEA bookcase.

However, Dave Coleman used a sheet of steel tack welded into place. You're still only talking about a hunk of steel and some welding time.

Toolapcfan explained why, in engineering speak, the IKEA brace resists different shear forces and loads than an RSTB. That thread is included in the IKEA section in the Suspension Thread. I'm thorough like that. LOL.

Nissan puts a ulta-cheesy little flimsy metal bar across that huge gaping hole, then covers it with plasti-coated cardboard. :rolleyes:

Combined with an AT RSTB and I think the rear end of the Sentra would be pretty stiff.

Yup, and sorry only spent a minute or so there to get the 'bookcase' concept. Probably could get either sheet aluminum or cross two, let's say, 4" wide by however long sheet pieces to the four corners, and tack/bolt 'em together in the middle too, to get a similar level of resistance to the shear forces (glad to have a word for this - the shoebox concept wasn't working all that well :-) ) with a significant weight reduction compared to sheet steel. Betcha Dave gets some serious 'boom' out of the sheet steel, too. 'Course, in our cars, what's a little extra racket??? I REALLY love such elegant (i.e., simple) functional ideas, Bravo to Dave.

hey its cool... becuase bottom line.. i dont care about convincing anyone. i let people make thier own decisions and think what they wanna think. like i said form the beggining..everyone has their own opinion... and everyone is an expert here. i was done with this whole thing last weekend.

Point is, you cannot handle someone questioning something you have done or constructive criticism. You want people to agree with you as much as hate the fact that people do it to others.

In short your just pissed because no one agreed with your idea with a solid reason to.

In this case, the brace is a proven concept. You had no way to substantiate your claims. If you have been around this forum long enough you should know people here will not blindly follow new things just because they look cool. They will question the effectiveness of the design first and ask for proof of concept (See Hyperco springs, Progress coiovers, AT strut bar)

So in conclusion, get over yourself and stop being such a victim.