I was talking to SE-Rican and he was telling me advanced timing makes a world of difference performance-wise. Then my friend was telling me "you can only advance timing by getting adjustable cam gears. Can someone (or multiple people) tell me what exactly advanced timing does, EVERYTHING you need to perform this operation, and the level of difficulty it is? I know you need a timing light, but thats all I remember...I was getting very confused. Sorry Rob!

Ju§tin

Originally posted by Crono1321
I was talking to SE-Rican and he was telling me advanced timing makes a world of difference performance-wise.
He is 100% corret on that! :)
Then my friend was telling me "you can only advance timing by getting adjustable cam gears.
Your friend must not know much about the good ol' SR20DE. :p

Go here and have your friend read this with you:

http://www.se-r.net/engine/about_timing.html

Then take the few hundred dollars for the adjustable cam gears that you don't need and go buy a header or something with it.

:D

I'm still unsure...I understand you are running w/out the TPS, but does your engine just change when you rev it up? I don't understand how you can do this....PLEASE EXPLAIN in a way I can exlplain. Also, do I have to get a specific timing light for the se-r.net experiment, or do all look the same? Thanks guys.

Ju§tin

Also, does this give you extra horsepower in addition to better throttle response, or just response? Don't forget to answer my other questions too!

your friend was confusing cam timing with ignition timing. cam timing IS only adjustable with cam gears, but ingnition timing adjustment is as simple as turning the distributor

Originally posted by Crono1321
I'm still unsure...I understand you are running w/out the TPS, but does your engine just change when you rev it up?


You are NOT running without the TPS. Rather...you're merely disconnecting it ONLY to set your timing. After that, you hook the TPS back up and drive away. In a (small) nutshell....advancing the timing changes around when the spark fires during the combustion process. That's being overly simple, but it works.

Yes, you'll get a better seat of the pants (SOTP) feeling, maybe a tad more hp/torque, and your throttle response will seem livelier. IF you advance the timing to where it needs to be, that is.

Originally posted by playatx99
your friend was confusing cam timing with ignition timing. cam timing IS only adjustable with cam gears


....and is basically a waste of time and money on SR20DEs unless you have boost.

I still dont understand WHY it advances! I don't understand HOW by revving up your engine you decrease the period of the sparking....does anyone know why this is? Or is it accepted as "just do it...it works?"

Ju§tin

I'll answer your question with a question, Justin. Maybe this will shed some light on timing for you:

Would you rather your engine fired the spark plug...
A. Before the fuel/air mix has been fully compressed?
or...
B. Slightly after the fuel/air mix has been fully compressed?

One will result in a loss of power. One will result in maximized power.

-GP-

I get the whole point of advancement, but I don't understand the operation to get there. It says rev up the engine and watch the timing light. How does just revving up an engine advance timing?

here goes. fill in where I mess up blokes. I think I know what your after.?.?

When the piston fills with air and fuel on the up stroke, the spark plug fires while it is compressed and thus pushes the piston down... stay with me for a moment. I'm going somewhere with this... If you advance the spark, the air fuel mixture ignites earlier and thus has more time to burn thus transfering more energy (power) to the piston instead of loosing it out the exhaust. This is a simple breakdown, but should give you a better idea of what it actualy does.
As you rev the engine to higher RPM, there is less time for the fuel to burn (moving too fast out of the piston) and so the early spark gets the air/fuel lit (or gets the worm). I hope this helps. Too much advance causes the nasty knock though and the engine goes "tarded". I hear 19-21 advance from different people. I'm just going to try to hit the #19. I hope this helps.

Cossie

NOTE: I may have missunderstood your question. Are you looking for a blow by blow on how to advance the timeing?

no. That was the reason why advance timing helps. See my last post where I want to know why when you have the TPS disconnected, a simple rev of the engine advances your timing. I KNOW WHY IT IS GOOD I WANT TO KNOW HOW THE OPERATION WORKS. Oh, and remember this isn't me being mean I'm just feeling frustrated.

Got you bloke. :) It's the ECU. It won't release timing control unless it sees the three reves without the TPS disconnected. When every thing is done properly, the ECU lets you reset it's base timeing instruction. At this point you can advance timing at the distributor. I don't like it this way. Wish it was like the older cars. You just adjust it and get out your timing light. No need to stand on your head 1st and drink a glass of water... I tried resetting timing once really quick and for some reason the ECU would not give me control. Some day soon i'll actualy sit down and go through the procedure properly. When we rush, we F*** things up. :D

Cossie

Originally posted by Crono1321
I still dont understand WHY it advances! I don't understand HOW by revving up your engine you decrease the period of the sparking....does anyone know why this is? Or is it accepted as "just do it...it works?"

Ju§tin

The problem is you want someone to explain an awful lot all at once with little knowledge to apply the explanation to. I highly suggest getting all of the issues of SCC that contain Mike Kojima's "Suck, Squish, Bang, Blow" articles. You need a primer on how an engine works and why.

Originally posted by cossieturbo
Got you bloke. :) It's the ECU. It won't release timing control unless it sees the three reves without the TPS disconnected. When every thing is done properly, the ECU lets you reset it's base timeing instruction. At this point you can advance timing at the distributor.

Bingo. Exactly correct.


Originally posted by cossieturbo
I don't like it this way. Wish it was like the older cars. You just adjust it and get out your timing light.

Yuck!

You mean you'd like to got back to vacuum advance and the mechanical weights and all the horse pucky that goes with that??

:)

No no no... that's not back far enough. I'm talking 4 legged horses... Yah... If you needed to adjust timing on those beasts, you just slipped them an apple and away you go. :D

I really didn't mind playing around with my old BMWs with their... yes folks... Vacuum advance ignition, points and plug wires that touched eachother all the way to the exhaust manifold. Does this make me a criminal or have I just banished myself from the SR20DE forum? :) Won't the court show mercy on this poor soul. I do own an NX2000.

Cossie

let me take a shot at this. to advance your timing, you have to physically adjust the angle of the distributor. there are two bolts that hold the position of the distributor. when you losen these two bolts, you can rotate the angle of the distributor in reference to the rotor. there are four contact points under the distributor cap which the rotor strikes at regular intervals. by advancing the timing 17 degrees, what you're physically doing is making the rotor strike those contact points 17 degrees earlier. that's what 'advancing timing' entails. for instince, let's say you have a clock where you can rotate the minute tick marks. the second hand makes a full circle every minute, and hits the '15' on the 15th second of the minute. now if you rotate the tick marks counterclockwise 3 seconds, the second hand will strike the '15' 3 seconds earlier. so let second hand = rotor and tick marks = distributor cap. as for revving the engine and disconnecting the tps, that's all a matter of 'prepping' your car for diagnostic mode. it doesn't set the timing for you. hope my explanationg has made everything MORE confusing for you! =)

good info guys.

Jomama did a very good job of explaining it. But I think he may have went into too much detail for you to fully understand. OK All you need is a timing light and a 12mm? wrench. First start the car and warm it up (take a short drive or something) Then open the hood and diss connect the TPS. Rev the engine 3 times. Now you are in timing mode. Take your timing light and hoke it to the battery and #1 spark plug wire. Shine it on the pulley. You will see little tick marks in white. they will look like this

-5 0 5 10 1315 20

| | | | ### |

You will not see the numbers. That is just there to show you what tick indacates what degree of timing. Now to acculey adjust it you need to go to your distributor and loosen the to 12mm bolts (one on top and one on the bottom) and manuly rotate the distributor. Have someone watching the pulley with the light when you get to where you want tighten dowm the bolts. then turn off the engine and reconnect the TPS.

Do not go past 17 deg. unless you plan on using premium gas ALL the time it you will be using good gas, set it to about 19. Now you can go enjoy your new found power. :) If I missed anything guys please correct me. Thanks

FYI, here (http://www.streetrodstuff.com/Articles/September_2000/Engine_Basics_I.php) is an excellent read regarding pre-ignition and detonation and how they relate to [advanced] ignition timing.

Michael.