This turbo is from forced performance, which is a very reputable company that many of the DSM guys use. I know many people will down this turbo since it uses the T25 housing. I have heard claims that is capable of pushing 320 whp. FP ran an 11.82 @ 119 with this turbo on a DSM, granted that was at 21 psi. I think this setup could be very cost effective if someone wants to put down 260 to 280 whp. If you have a bored out SE-R MAF and the 4 bar program on your ECU, your car can support 280whp on the stock 370cc injectors at 100% duty cycle. What I am saying is that if you didn't want to run 100% duty cycle you could put down 250 or 260 whp. This would be a cheap upgrade for someone who wants more power, but doesn't want to upgrade injectors, fuel rail, DP, manifold. Let me know what you think.
http://www.forcedperformance.net/dsm_turbo_big28.htm

Interestinf stuff Craig. Hows the swap coming along? Any luck with the tranny? And why the hell havent you called me for help damnit! :mad:

The swap is coming along nicely, I have no doubt that it will be up and running by Sunday. It will take longer than expected since school starts again today and the weather is not cooperating. I should have called you yesterday, I dropped the engine in by myself and it was a b!tch (nothing like wedging the ES motor mounts in there). I need to find a 1/8 BSPT Tee for my Oil pressure gauge.

Later

A GTi-R turbo will perform at least as well for less money.

I don't know why you would get the FP turbo unless you had a DSM and wanted a turbo that would bolt up to your stock manifold.

It also will not bolt onto the GTI-R or or Bluebird manifolds. The Mitsubishi T25 flange is different from the Garrett T25 flange we use.

What I meant, was send your turbo to FP to have it modified. I am positive they could do it.

I've seen that company's products before, specifically the T28s for Z32s and their hybrid T25/T28. I'm not going to poo poo you for trying, but I am skeptical of the T25's upgrade path. Most companies that "upgrade" T25s, I hear, wind up hurting overall performance pretty badly in favor of very minimal real gains. Definitely keep us posted!

Like I say, the GTi-R T-28 is a damn good turbo. It is a hard turbo to improve upon. The major upgrades I would do to that turbo are a compressor housing and adaptor ring from an S14 Silvia, and Extrude Hone the turbine housing. I don't think that any aftermarket company can rebuild a T-25 to beat that turbo. If someone out there thinks he can spec a better T-28, I'm all ears.

The GTi-R turbo is a great bang for the buck. Considering how few people who have the F-MAX kit ever spring for the bigger injectors, MAF subtractor circuit, and race gas required to extract its full power potential, I think that the Pulsar turbo has plenty of oomph for what most people practically can use. Remember that Ray Kawski laid down over 260 whp on pump gas with the turbo I described above with a 60mm exhaust, cat, and a stock DE with S3's. That's a damn impressive feat.

I think that Louis can get the Pulsar turbos at a good price, too.

Rob

I've seen this mentioned from you before Rob (on the main list), and I've wondered about it. I'm an Industrial Mechanic, but just starting to work on cars. What's needed for this hybrid, what's the easiest way to get it, and most important.... is this something I would have to send the turbo off somewhere to have done or could I do it myself? I hope to turbo my car, but I don't need anything huge. I've thought this would be great since I first saw you mention it. Thanks.
Jason

Originally posted by ClassicSE-R
If someone out there thinks he can spec a better T-28, I'm all ears.
How about stuffing a 79 trim 53.8mm Inco T-250 turbine wheel in a .86 A/R turbine housing on an S14 ball bearing center section and compressor assembly? :D

Also, how does this vary from an S15 turbine section?

Originally posted by kafn8ed
I've seen this mentioned from you before Rob (on the main list), and I've wondered about it. I'm an Industrial Mechanic, but just starting to work on cars. What's needed for this hybrid, what's the easiest way to get it, and most important.... is this something I would have to send the turbo off somewhere to have done or could I do it myself? I hope to turbo my car, but I don't need anything huge. I've thought this would be great since I first saw you mention it. Thanks.
Jason

The only place I would trust to do this is JWT. They fully understand what is necessary, what the right part numbers are, and how to do it right.

Swapping the housings is a piece of cake job once you get the S14 compressor housing. You will need compressor housing part number 467937-0002, and adaptor ring part number 432572-1. You can try to buy these parts from a Garrett distributor.

Replacing the housing is very easy, except that you will need a huge set of snap ring pliers to remove the stock adaptor ring. If you can get the housing and adaptor ring, there is no reason whatsoever to send the turbo out to have the parts installed.

Removing the turbine housing is a piece of cake, too. You can take it off and send it to Extrude Hone. You don't have to do any balancing work on the turbo if you just remove the end housings.

You can also run the straight GTi-R turbo until you find the right compressor housing (Garrett should be making it more readily available soon), as it is a good turbo stock and will support a lot of power.

Originally posted by CowboyDren

How about stuffing a 79 trim 53.8mm Inco T-250 turbine wheel in a .86 A/R turbine housing on an S14 ball bearing center section and compressor assembly? :D


Unfortunately, there is no ball bearing 79 trim T-250 shaft wheel that I know of.

The Disco Potato turbo has a ball bearing 76 trim NS-111 wheel (higher performance than the T-250) in a 0.86 A/R turbine housing. This will be widely available soon. This will be the ultimate T-28, capable of supporting up to 300 whp with buttery boost response.


Also, how does this vary from an S15 turbine section?


The S15 turbo is the same as the S14 turbo, except that is has an INCO turbine wheel and a cast divider wall between the turbine discharge and the wastegate port.

Okay; I'm confused, then. Is this a typo, or are you getting old, Rob? :DNissan, HKS, Garrett, Turbonetics turbo sizing (FAQ) (http://www.se-r-list.org/archives/2001/2001-04/msg00883.html)It says that S14s are BB, but at this point it's your word against yours. ;)

Is there an ETA on the D/P turbo being available for consumption? How about a ballpark price?

Originally posted by CowboyDren
Okay; I'm confused, then. Is this a typo, or are you getting old, Rob?

It says that S14s are BB, but at this point it's your word against yours. ;)



uhhh, I don't get it. I said in the post that an S14 turbo is a "62 trim 53.8mm T-25 turbine. .64 A/R turbine housing. Ball bearing center section."

Then I said that there is no such thing as a ball bearing 79 trim T-250 wheel, as far as I know. Where is the contradiction?

The S14 and S15 are 62 trim ball bearing 0.64 A/R turbines.

The GTi-R is a 79 trim 0.86 A/R turbine

The Disco Potato is a 76 trim 0.86 A/R turbine


Is there an ETA on the D/P turbo being available for consumption?


Probably by the end of the year.


How about a ballpark price?

$1400 or so. That's a ballpark, not fixed.

Well here is a great turbo for the money. $1,700. This turbo is full ballbearing. It has a divorced wastegate setup for better flow. It is good for 450 HP. I have put this turbo on a bluebird motor with Pulsar GTIR manifold, 555cc injs, 4 bar, 300ZX MAF and S3 cams. I made 375 WHP and 355 LB Foot of torque at 18 psi on pump gas. The car ran 11.6 at 123 MPH.

Compressor - IND x EXD 55 x 76, Trim 52, AR .60 .

Turbine - EXD x IND 53.5 x 56.5, Trim 90, AR .86 .

Hey Andreas, isn't that the turbo that Doug was telling me has the insanely fast spool up time?

Originally posted by ClassicSE-R
Then I said that there is no such thing as a ball bearing 79 trim T-250 wheel, as far as I know. Where is the contradiction?I'm very sorry, I get it now. I missed it, and it's totally my fault.Probably by the end of the year ... $1400 or so. That's a ballpark, not fixed. I won't hold you to that, but it's comforting to have an idea. I was afraid it'd be more like $2500, which is why I asked.

If I was buying a turbo tomorrow, I wouldn't want 450hp on my daily driver, which is why I'm currently obsessed with the T28 configurations, especially D/P's.

I personally think that most people who have turbo kits have way more turbo than they will ever use. I think that more people should consider the high output T-28's.

Well I agree with Rob The GTIR turbo is the best all around turbo. It will make an easy 280 WHP, which is good for mid 12s with some good driving.

CowboyDren I am not saying you need to get this turbo, I was showing you a great turbo that can bolt on to the GTIR manifold. As far as driving around with 450 hp. That would be at high boost. I am sure at about 10psi or so this turbo would make about 270-290 to the wheels. You can regulate HP via a boost controler you know. Also I would think getting a turbo that can make 280hp at 10 psi would be far better than getting a turbo to make 280 at 18 psi. Less stress on the motor. Also dont say that the GTIR turbo will spool up quicker either. The GTIR Turbo is non ballbearing and the turbo I listed is ballBearing. I can almost bet that you are not getting a .86 AR turbine housing from D/P. D/P is probably selling some big wheel turbo in a little T25 housing. Can we say "HIGH HEAT AND LOW EFFICIENCY"

I get the feeling that I'm using strange/wrong terms again. We on the B15 board refer to Disco Potato as D/P; used in a sentence, "Rob's detailed D/P's turbo specifications several times." It's a burly little T28 that absolutely rocks balls from everything I've seen. Because it's a T28, it will have to spin pretty fast (get hot, too) to make lots of power, but I genuinely think it'll fit my scheme better. It, by the way, is a ball bearing design, so it has the same spool advantage that other smaller BB turbos have. Aside, Rob, why isn't D/P over the 280HP mark yet?

Yes, boost controllers are good. I think I'd probably invest in an A'PEXi AVC-R before doing anything else. I ask, though, why Jay Hassinger hated driving his 400HP car so much. He related that turning the boost down to sane levels made the car difficult to drive, but keeping the car at "healthy" levels was just flat-out dangerous. Absolutely 280HP is better if you're only going 10PSI than 280HP @ 18PSI, but if keeping the boost controller turned down is the only way to stay safe, and I hate driving my car, what's the point? I won't even be running at 280HP most of the time, either; I'd likely have the wastegate popped by 0.5 bar most of the time.

I have a lot more to learn about turbos. I do not understand the relationship between boost and horsepower at all; I'd always assumed that more boost made more power, assuming the intake charge was the same temperature and the exhaust wasn't restricted. I suppose I'm probably wrong about that, but I don't know where to start learning the correct facts. Any help on this quest, especially online sources, would be appreciated.