advantages of FWD, AWD, RWD... [Archive] - SR20 Forum

: advantages of FWD, AWD, RWD...


UrbN
05-30-2002, 08:29 PM
The question is in the title, post em up, i'm wondering... :confused:

AztekSE-R
05-30-2002, 08:34 PM
AWD=Great launches
RWD=Drifting :)
FWD=Great handling

MaddMatt
05-30-2002, 08:55 PM
AWD: traction. Has a tendency to understeer. Cars are generally heavier than similar fwd and rwd cars.

FWD: compact and light engine/transmission assemblies. FWD cars are generally lighter overall than rwd cars of similar size. FWD cars understeer almost always.

RWD: Better balance and handling than FWD cars. Tend to oversteer.

The best platform for motorsports is a rwd car. Unless traction becomes an issue, then AWD is what you want.

spdracerUT
05-30-2002, 09:18 PM
AWD: yeah, lots of traction, 4 wheels being powered vs 2 so you have all 4 wheels putting power down. I guess you could say it's a good way to get the most power down. AWD adds complexity, weight, higher drivetrain losses. Seems to me that it's really only useful when you're in slippery conditions.

FWD: understeers for the most part. Simiplist, cheapest, and it keeps the drivier out of trouble as the car always understeers when you get on the power. Furthermore, FWD cars tend to be front heavy.

RWD: pretty much the best for going fast. Ever see a real race (built soley for racing, not based on a production car) car that's FWD? (F1, CART, Lemans, etc). Usually have even weight distribution, more drivetrain losses than FWD, less than AWD. You can use the throttle to steer. Dangerous for inexperieced drivers because too much throttle will cause the car to spin out.

Khiem

Shadow-=OL=-
05-30-2002, 09:52 PM
ok everybody posted about awd and rwd and fwd but the best handling is awd and no rwd is not better than fwd in handling. for those who are older than 18 will remember that in rally racing before awd they used fwd and in lower levels they still do till this day so if you don't have the dinero(money) to buy a awd car fwd is the best in handling because one wrong turn in a rwd car means your life thats the real reason why fwd was made. really i've hade alot of cars rwd and fwd and i love fwd drive cars. only reason why people don't like fwd is probally because there used to it but please i'm not trying to start and arugument but in reality i've seen fwd 8 second cars and i've seen 8 second rwd cars with more horsepower sure f1 has rwd drice cars but thats because the engine has to be in the back and there like mid engine rwd and there so low to the ground a peeble will hit the chassis. the lower your car the more traction your gonna get. all in all awd is the best but fwd is a very good alternitive. thats why every company uses it now. remember fwd saves lives.

Shadow-=OL=-
05-30-2002, 09:59 PM
btw in a real car race where real life cars race(type r's and the famous skyline gtr) they use allwheel or front wheel drive. thats of course grand touring. btw put an sr20det in a 240 and then into a sentra classic and lets see who win's :D

RySE-R 1
05-30-2002, 10:11 PM
Hey, Shadow. It hurts to read your posts. Try some punctuation and capitalization.

Anyway, the only reason people used FWD in rallying before AWD came along is because it provides better traction in the tenuous conditions that rally drivers have to endure, where traction is paramount. RWD is best overall for pure racing under ideal conditions, such as on prepared tracks and most streets when it's not raining. However, RWD sucks when it's wet because there is less weight over the drive wheels to provide traction in slippery conditions. The main reason most cars, especially cheaper and non-sports cars are FWD today is because they are a more efficient package (cheaper to produce), and easier and safer to drive for the average Joe Shmoe non-sporting driver.

Personally, I think AWD cars are best when they are torque-splitting systems that tend to negate understeer, such as used on the Nissan Skylines and Mitsu Evo's. That's because most of their power is going to the rear wheels and only sends power to the front wheels when needed, or according to how one adjusts it to their preferences.

Storm88000
05-31-2002, 12:15 AM
FWD = sucks

RWD = rules

Cjburn
05-31-2002, 01:13 AM
FWD cars are the worst set up for a road coarse set up. The tires are asked to steer, apply power, and do the lions share of the braking duties. You're asking those wheels to do a ton. But it is the most efficient drivetrain set-up out of all of them, plus it's the cheapest. Since it's cheap it is usually packaged in a cheap cars, and cheap cars are usually the lightest. So the problems are offset a little.
RWD cars offer the best of everything, they can get out of the hole as good as any AWD car. They're usually the best balanced cars, with regards to the front to rear weight ratios...ie Miata. Unfortunately they tend to SUCK horribly in winter and rainy conditions. So you see this set up in trucks and sports cars only. Trucks because, they usually are packing larger engines for towing capacity and work/payload. Sports cars because, well it offers all of the above
AWD cars get out of the whole and stick like glue to the pavement. Yet the driveline drag makes them slower during a rolling race. I personally prefer AWD for a sports car.

spdracerUT
05-31-2002, 01:23 AM
Hmm... well, FWD is advantagous in slippery conditions. Why? Because you can pull the front of the car in the direction you want when you get out of shape in the slippery stuff. If you're RWD and the tail is already sliding, well, you're outta luck. But on a smooth surface in dry conditions, either RWD or AWD with a torque splitting system (such as the skyline, 911 turbo which direct power to the front wheels when the rears spin) will rule over a FWD car.

There's nothing like steering with the throttle. Sure, if you have your suspesion set up correctly in a FWD car, you can get it very neutral and even oversteer in lift throttle conditions. But if you're pushing midcorner in a FWD car, there's not much you can do. RWD, just gas it to get the rear to rotate and you're off. Plus, since RWD has a more even weight distribution, you get more even tire wear and a better polar moment of inertia. Having most of the weight in the front in a FWD car makes it pretty difficult to rotate relative to a car of the same mass and RWD with an even weight distribution.

And when you accelerate, the weight transfers towards the rear which is good if your RWD. That's the main reason FWD sucks for drag racing. Yes, there's a reason why top fuel dragsters which do the 1/4 in ~4.5 @ 330+mph are RWD.

FWD is cheap (less parts), efficient (less mechanical losses), and safe for your average driver (understeers), but it's definitely not the fastest way around the street.

Khiem

MaddMatt
05-31-2002, 09:58 AM
There's nothing like steering with the throttle.

Pitching a Miata sideways on an autocross course and steering with your right foot is quite possibly the most fun thing you can do in a moving car with your clothes on.

RWD oWnZ JoO!

dontblameme
05-31-2002, 11:34 AM
no rwd is not better than fwd in handling.
LOL thats great.

FWD is easy for the average everyday grocery getter person to drive. The cars understeer, are easier to control in all types of weather, just easy for the everyday commute.

That does not make them better handling then RWD. It makes you think they are better handling because they are easier.

slvrsentra
05-31-2002, 11:41 AM
The best thing about fwd is its lighter and there is less hp lose through the tranny so more power to the wheels.

jon3k
05-31-2002, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by Chris Colburn
RWD cars offer the best of everything, they can get out of the hole as good as any AWD car.

I don't think its fair to make that blanket statement. You're telling me a lt1 z28 camaro can get off the line on street tires faster than a WRX on street tires? Not a chance. thats just one example. i'm not arguing that with fat slicks, you can't pull 1.4 short times RWD (or better) just that you can't make the blanket statement "RWD launches as good as AWD" period. no way.

slvrsentra
05-31-2002, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by jon3k


I don't think its fair to make that blanket statement. You're telling me a lt1 z28 camaro can get off the line on street tires faster than a WRX on street tires? Not a chance. thats just one example. i'm not arguing that with fat slicks, you can't pull 1.4 short times RWD (or better) just that you can't make the blanket statement "RWD launches as good as AWD" period. no way.

Agreed with awd you can launch and much much higher rpms with out ANY will slipage at all. Grantaded its a beating on the driveterain but you can still do it.

Shoes59
05-31-2002, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by RySE-R 1
Hey, Shadow. It hurts to read your posts. Try some punctuation and capitalization.

You mean you actually read it?

Shadow-=OL=-
05-31-2002, 02:39 PM
funny how mostly everybody here has a fwd car. yeah but rwd is better right? we'll it's not that good if your shooting for performance and get a fwd car anyways. and 90 percent of cars come front wheel drive. it's simply better it's in the middle of the performance stand point. oh yeah the subaru wrx has dynoed at only 165 hp at the wheels and it's doing 14.1 sec 1/4 miles and get a rwd or fwd car that weighs the same with the same horse power. the acura type s has about the same horse power to the wheels and weighs 300lbs less and does 14.9 1/4 mile. so awd is better than all but few cars come with it. also you notice how most rally cars like ford focus. peugut(spelling) 206 and they take out the awd and convert it to fwd for sale to the people. the gtir is just a hatch back 200sx wich came fwd in america with a detuned sr20de. the honda s2000 has 240 horse power and does the 1/4 mile at 14.3 the type s does it in 14.9 again and has 200 at the flywheel. let see wich car would win in the 1/4 mile if you added 40 extra hp to the type s. you lose alittle bit more horsepower to the wheels with a rwd car also. go dyno an altima with the 2.4 then a 240 sx if you don't beleave me.

dontblameme
05-31-2002, 03:12 PM
also you notice how most rally cars like ford focus. peugut(spelling) 206 and they take out the awd and convert it to fwd for sale to the people.
to keep the car cheaper. Would you pay low to mid $20k for an awd focus when you can pay about the same for the WRX and have a faster car. Also rumour is 2004 the focus will be offered as AWD.

the honda s2000 has 240 horse power and does the 1/4 mile at 14.3 the type s does it in 14.9 again and has 200 at the flywheel. let see wich car would win in the 1/4 mile if you added 40 extra hp to the type s.
The s2000 would win.

you lose alittle bit more horsepower to the wheels with a rwd car also. go dyno an altima with the 2.4 then a 240 sx if you don't beleave me.
you lose power through inifficient drive trains. Plus RWD can put the power down better then FWD, and AWD can launch with no spin.

Also how often have you shifted in FWD car and have the front wheels feel like they have no clue where they want to go?

spdracerUT
05-31-2002, 04:50 PM
Okay... well, thought this was suppose to be about handling but since it's shifted to straight line.

Sure, on cars with only 150hp which can only break their tires loose when it's wet; a FWD car which is inherently lighter with less drivetrain loss will beat a RWD car assuming the RWD weighs a little more due to it's drivetrain layout and added weight.
,
When you start talking 300+ hp where traction is an issue, RWD will dominate. Simply because when you're accelerating, the weight transfers to the rear. So FWD, the weight transfers off of the drive wheels; RWD, the weight transfers onto the drive wheels. And as we all know from high school physics, force is equal to force normal X mu where mu is the coefficent of friction. Well, after all the weight transfers off the front wheels, there's not going to be a whole lot of force put down.

Just look at the disco potato; at the nat'l conventionin AZ, it's first run on the drag strip was like 15.7 with almost 300 whp. Why? couldn't get traction. Why? Because it's FWD and all the weight transfered to the rear. You could sit there and watch those tires spin thru the first 3 gears.

Heck, if you want to get really simply about it, what's the fattest tire you can fit on a FWD compact? Maybe 225? Well, that's not very much when you can stuff a 335 on the rear of a viper. For some reason, I think the wider tire will give more traction.

As for why everyone hear has a FWD car? Have you seen how much RWD cars cost? The cheapest one I can think of is the miata and that's still over 20k.

Khiem

Pretty White
05-31-2002, 08:35 PM
Come on. FWD has it's advantages but it is here because it is cheaper to produce on an assembly line. Period. It is all about cost cutting.

Before the Sentra is was the 310. RWD.
Before the Maxima it was the 810. RWD.
Before the Grand Prix was FWD it was RWD.
Driveshafts and such cost too much money to produce.
RWD can be made as safe as FWD in slippery conditions but at what cost.


Lets see....

NASCAR, CART, FIA, FORMULA 1, BMW, MERCEDES, JAGUAR, FERRARI.

Get my drift?

I like my FWD but rather have a E46M3 anyday.