Okay I know I've done a search and I must have seen this topic plenty of times, but the question has never been answered. What is so hard about the GTIR swap that everyone shy's away from it?

I've compared prices and I've seen GTIR's for only 300-500 bucks more than a BB swap, so it couldnt be the price. For 500 buck I think better rods, individual throttle bodies, and stronger bolts, among other things are well worth the extra money.

The only thing i have heard fromt his board is because it has ITB's it is harder to tune. But for me I just want to get the engine, do a little porting and some minor tweaks and drop te motor in. The most mods I'll do are upgraded exhaust, and an electnic boost controller.

I've heard from an impoter that some wires need to be rewires for the injectors.

Anyone else know of anything that would make me shy away from the swap?

My goal isn't an all out beast. I want pretty much stock power with just bolt on's added and necessary electronic.

Originally posted by civicdragon
What is so hard about the GTIR swap that everyone shy's away from it?

#1 reason? It's because it's different. The BB DET and regular DE share many parts. The GTi-R however, does not. Since it's such a rare beast, it will be harder to source parts if you need them - like cams, lifters, rocker arms, bearings, etc.


I've compared prices and I've seen GTIR's for only 300-500 bucks more than a BB swap, so it couldnt be the price. For 500 buck I think better rods, individual throttle bodies, and stronger bolts, among other things are well worth the extra money.

Well, if you can find it for $300-500 more than a BB DET, it might be worth it. For a BB DET to get close to a GTi-R in power potential, you will need at least the GTi-R manifold and turbo. That's about $800-1000 right there. And I think you're forgetting a "normal" SR20DE block is pretty damned strong itself without the upgraded rods, bearings, etc that the GTi-R motor has.


The most mods I'll do are upgraded exhaust, and an electnic boost controller. ... My goal isn't an all out beast. I want pretty much stock power with just bolt on's added and necessary electronic.

Well, if your goal isn't an all out beast, I would just get the BB DET. A GTi-R motor is a great engine for going all out. If you're gonna stick with stockish DET power, then do the easy route (BB DET swap) and save the money to do a 3" exhaust and FMIC. Have you felt what 200whp feels like in a 2500lb SE-R? It's pretty damned quick and tons of fun. But, it's your money and your car, so if you want to be a little different, go right ahead. The GTi-R motor is definitely cool and I hear it's worth the extra hassle to make it work. ;)

Good luck,

So then the install itself is pretty much the same except for a little extra wiring? I'm not afraid of a little wiring. So i think if thats all the fuss is about then I'll get the GTIR. As for the parts there are plenty of GTIR's overseas I'm sure someone will be willing to sell me some parts if I ever need them =)

But like I said I want to just do bolt ons so the more baseline power the better.

I got my prices from here:

http://www.heavythrottle.com/

Originally posted by civicdragon
As for the parts there are plenty of GTIR's overseas I'm sure someone will be willing to sell me some parts if I ever need them =)


Yes, there is *someone* overseas that has lots of parts...it's just that they cost a hell of a lot more and take a lot longer to get here. If you're doing the install and have a bent fuel rail, or a cracked distributor, or a broken injector (don't ask me how I know), you can't just run out to a junk yard or a Nissan dealership and get some relatively cheap parts for your DET if you have a GTi-R. It's just that it's not a big deal, and well worth it to some people. That's all.

Here's my experience: I put the pulsar motor in my sentra and it's still not running right. Me just being me had to have the big bad assed motor and went all out.
If i was going to redo it then i would probably just get the blue bird motor. Cost wasn't an issue as i bought the motor for about what i would've paid for an bb. But then you have to worry about an ecu and a lot of other things you don't with a bb.
The pulsar block is a 54c where as the bb is a 53j. The bearings are different. You have to go to jwt and bend over for these and most of the time wait 4 months to get them.
You have to soldier in dropping resistors if you plan on using the 444cc injectors. There are a few other things that need to be cut and redone.
It is worth the extra money for the motor *IF* you plan on going all out but not just for 20 extra ponies from the factory. You will end up spending about twice the money you would on the bluebird motor by the time you're done...just for a little more power. Get a 3" exhaust-a dail a boom-intake and a few other goodies and you'll be just fine.
Brent

if I want to leave it stock I can use the ecu and the injectors it comes with, so I wont have to worry bout JWT sticking it to me or doing a whole lot of wiring.

I really like it because it comes with the T28 which is the best streetable turbo combo for this car. I cant see myself buying an engine and then spending another 1200 for a new turbo.

I wanna pretty much bolt in the engine and call it a day

I can. I gaurantee that a Bluebird with a GTi-R turbo setup is going to be cheaper than a GTi-R engine, and take a lot less time to execute. I've never heard of somebody "bolting in an 'R and calling it a day." Did you even read Brent's post at all?

Did you read it? I did, he said if you use 444cc injectors you gotta wire resistors in... what injectors come stock in the engine? Well thats what I'm gonna use.

And he said the bearings are different? What bearings? Do you know how many different type of bearings are in an engine? If I get a GTIR engine the most i'll do to it is take off the manifolds and hand port and polish the openings, and that its. As for pulling apart the motor, its not gonna happen.

370s are all you need for a street setup with the stock Bluebird ECU, even with a GTi-R turbo and moderate amounts of boost, and those (high-impedence) are what come with a Bluebird or Avenir engine. The GTi-R engine is the only one that comes with 444s (low-impedence), which makes it the oddball. It's standard proceedure to replace the main bearings if not the rod bearings when you install a used engine; it's cheap insurance. A Bluebird uses the same main bearings that a US-spec SR20DE (53J casting) uses, vs. the GTi-R block (54C casting) which uses bearings you can only get from JWT or NISMO or another importer at +3x the cost of the 53J units.

You seem to have a lot more research ahead of you before you start buying parts, or you will be sorry. There are printed reams' worth of information on doing a DET swap out there, and you've only cracked the surface. Slow down, open your eyes, and let other people teach you from their experience. If you want the GTi-R engine for cool factor, say so, but if you think it's going to be easy, you're lying to yourself.

Its not about cool factor, and I never said it was gonna be easy.

Wealth of imformation, yeah theres plenty... on the BB motor and the GTIR turbo, not too much on the engine. I've searched for GTIR, DET swaps, injectors, you name it I've read plenty looked at lots of info, saved pages to my hard drive for viewing in case the site ever goes down. It's just a fact that there isnt much info on the GTIR swp, because everyone deems it hard, so they do a BB swap.

I've searched and I still havent found out if out can use the stock GTIR ecu. IF so why do you need to wire resistors with the injectors? If you pull apart the motor for cheap insurance and change the bearings, why? If it aint broke dont fix it. Mic, the bearings check endplay, etc and if they are within tolerances then your good to go.

As for parts one of my good friends is part of a colaboration, him being on of about 5 guys doing imports. He and about 4 others are here in the USA, with a Japanese connection sending crates of engines and front clips. So parts availibilty is not an issue here, neither is price.

So seriously, all I need to know is what is so different about the install? Some say you wire the resistors, but thats kinda unclear why you need to wire something running under the ecu it was meant to be run with. If I need to do some facbrication, no big deal, cause I'll have plenty of that done, with the new SR20ve trans my friend is sourcing for me. I'm gonna have to convert it from cable to hydro, and the axles might have to be mixed and matched.

So can you tell me what makes the install so hard? Not replacing parts, but installing the engine.

"If it ain't broke" isn't adequate in this case. Bearing failure on SR20DETs comes completely without warning in a used engine. If you can tear it down far enough to check play, you can replace the bearings in question; you can get to them all from pulling the oil pan. It's good that you have a parts connection, for sure, but you understand that the bearings have to be new? A wise person said, "There's never time to do something right, but there's always time to do it again." It's also said that Time is Money, and this is one of those situations where it couldn't be more true (for a metaphor).

If you use the GTi-R MAF, O2 sensor, harness, and ECU, I don't see why you'll have to modify anything; I think these people are talking about using the JWT (high-impedence) ECU and it's injector circuits. The SR20 and it's wiring harness for the ECU stuff is pretty well self-contained, and should pull and drop without too much of a fight. Getting the throttle bodies right is supposed to suck pretty badly, not to mention fitment will be very tight compared to the simpler high-port intake manifold that the other engines use.

I still say you're asking for trouble, but you've thought about it pretty hard before asking. If it's not for cool factor, and it's not for ease, though, why? Until you start heading for 400 WHP, an 'R swap is all but total overkill. If you can get an 'R engine for cheap, it stands to reason that you should be able to get a BB engine even cheaper, pushing the cost scale down again. It just doesn't make sense, I tell you, which is why nobody does it.

All the research I did and I misread one of the most important parts of information. I thought the GTI-R's were the a lot newer than they actually are. They were made from 91-94, I thought is was closer to 98. In that case forget all the fuss I'm looking into an Avenir. It's the same HP and I really dont want to do any extra fabricating Since I am gonna have a lot on my hands with this new trans.

Anyway thanx Cowboy for showing me the light, as I read some more posts that you had some helpful info in those as well.

Sorry to rehash a dead thread, but after some SERIOUSLY extensive searching on the se-r mailing list archives, sr20deforum and nissanforums, I had some questions about the GTi-R swap.

Some notes first: The current car this swap will be performed on is a 1998 Nissan Sentra GXE (Automatic). I plan on swapping from the automatic tranny to a manual during the process as well since all the pedals brackets and lines are included in the clip as well. Now I realize that I'll need to replace the AWD transmission included with the clip with an SR20 FWD tranny, I plan on having the case welded and if i have the cash left cryo'ing the gears just to be safe. My question however is what else will I need to purchase to make this a complete swap? I have a complete uncut harness and ecu from the clip, i have the entire front suspension, including brakes, is the gauge cluster going to present an issue, is there anything on the tranny that will interfere with the ECU, being a USDM tranny and a JDM ecu?

Basically what I have in mind is ripping the dash out and replacing all the USDM sensors with the JDM sensors included in the clip, i realize the car will nolonger smog but thats not an issue, i have a good smog guy. Is this a crazy notion, or should the sensors be replaced to ensure the plugs are compatible?

Basically im looking for input from people who have completed this swap on their B14's and can relate their experiences to me, and hopefully others who search and find this thread. I realize this is the most difficult swap, I just want to know what to expect, and what to prepare for so I am well prepared and can make the experience as painless as possible.

Thanks,
Ryan

Can anyone help?

Can anyone help?

if you are serious about doing this i would contact Jason @JGY Customs he can tell ya what you will need

im as serious as a heart attack, i already bought the clip (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=33615&item=2438054340), i guess ill call both jason at jgy and clark at jwt and get roundabout quotes on what parts im going to need. I was just hoping that people who have successfully ocmpleted this swap on these boards could relate some personal experiences and problem areas so i know what to look out for.

Jason has never gave me the run around ...it would be nice if some one did a nice write up on the GTI-R Swap

Give me some time, the swap will take a couple months to assemble all the parts and get the ECU in, plus the 3-4 weeks it will take for the clip to arrive in the first place. I plan on putting my new camcorder to use during the swap and we will be filming, photographing and authoring a writeup as we go. We also plan on taking a plasma cutter to the GTi-R hood and welding the scoop and vents onto my b14 hood, ill post pics and video of that as I go as well.

Jason has never gave me the run around ...it would be nice if some one did a nice write up on the GTI-R Swap

Check the SE-R mailing list archives as mentioned earlier. Fewer people have done the GTi-R swap, but it's been done. There are several e-mails that list all of the particular things that have to be done for the GTi-R swap.

Also, I would disagree with those who have mentioned adjusting the throttle bodies and replacing the bearings. I haven't done either and I've had 15,000 trouble-free miles on my swap. In fact, I'd say don't touch the throttle bodies unless you are absolutely sure that they are the problem. I think most folks just start fiddling with them and cause their own problems.

clay
92 SE-R with GTi-R heart.

yep I hit the SE-R mailing list archives a week or two ago, but doing a search on GTi-R swap yielded minimal results, i got a few handy tidbits but nothing earth shaking, im more interested in the opinions of those who have done the swap and can relate their personal trouble areas during the process so I can watch out for it (like adjusting the quad tb's)