I have been watching the boards now for a few weeks and searching this and other forums. I know questions like this come up frequently, but I've never been able to get a straight answer in totality to mine...so here goes:

I have deduced that the Bluebird and the GTI-R will both work for us B13'ers. What are the acceptable years of JDM DET production that will swap into a 91-93? And what's with the different colored tops? Do I need a red, blue, black, silver, ...brownish-yellow?! Is the top color just a different way to say "Bluebird" , or are there mulitiple Bluebird versions?

Are there other distinguishing marks I should be looking for if I go to see the engine before purchasing? (I know about compression test, rod bearings, all that stuff..just looking for physical things for ID purposes, other than the color of the cam cover and being AWD.)


In other words, I want a Bluebird engine. What should I look for?


Thanks,
Dave.

There are 2 Bluebird's;
Both have Burgandy valve covers
1989-1991 U12 SR20DET 202hp TMIC T-25
1992-1996 U13 SR20DET 207hp FMIC T-25

Burgandy valve cover
There is one GTi-R;
1990-1994 RNN14 SR20DET 226hp TMIC T-28

96-98=Silver valve cover
98-Present=Black valve cover
There are 2 Avenir's;
1996-1998 W10 SR20DET 226hp FMIC T-25
1998-Present W11 SR20DET 226hp FMIC T-25 BB

Any of the engines Charlie listed will work, but you want the Bluebird or the Avenir engine, not the GTi-R. Any of the U12/U13/W10/W11 SR20DETs will work (note: ther's no hyphen in SR20DET ;)), with more or less equal amounts of work. If you can get an Avenir or a U13, try to get the FMIC with it.

Perfect. Thanks for the help. So I'll be OK harness and computer-wise with the Avenir? (I know about the JWT thing). Does anyone know where the production date is located on the engine?


I can't see a reason to use the U-series engine other than cost effectiveness.

Date really doesn't matter. The AWD variants of the SR20DET have only been made since the '89 U13.

Where can you buy a Avenir engine and what makes it a better buy then the GTI-R and the BB engine?

Originally posted by CowboyDren
Date really doesn't matter. The AWD variants of the SR20DET have only been made since the '89 U13.

I think you mean '89 U12.

Originally posted by SE R Madness
Where can you buy a Avenir engine and what makes it a better buy then the GTI-R and the BB engine?

They should have them at most engine importers that's why I post some what detailed info so that you no what to look for. What makes it a better buy than the GTi-R.

1) The GTi-R is older 90-94.
2) For the most part the GTi-R is not interchangeable with USDM SR20DE
3) It is hard to get parts for.
4) It's comes with 8:3:1 compression which makes it even more laggy when off boost.
5) It does come with a T28 but it is a older T28.

Avenir W10/W11
1) They are newer 96-present.
2) They haven't been sitting around for as many years.
3) They are easy to get parts for.
4) They are interchangeable with USDM SR20DE.
5) They are made with better technology, they are newer.
6) There turbos, manifolds, injectors have all been revised.
7) It makes the same horse power as the GTi-R 226 (stock).
8) It comes with 8:5:1 compression which means it's a little less laggy when off boost. (There is no need for 8:3:1 unless you plan on making a huge amount of boost).
9) It cost less than the GTi-R.

Originally posted by CowboyDren
Date really doesn't matter. The AWD variants of the SR20DET have only been made since the '89 U13.

I think date does matter I wouldn't go out and buy but thats just me a old as possible 1989 U12 SR20DET with 202hp for the same price I could get a old as possible 1992 U13 SR20DET with 207hp granted it's only 5 horsepower but obviously(spellcheck) something is better. I tell you what I got my old as possible W10 1996 Avenir with 226 hp for cheaper than most of you get those 202 hp U12's for.

the nice thing about the avenir motor is that you have it already setup for an easy FMIC. also, they are newer motors and therefore more likely to be in good condition and will more than likely have less miles on them. also, wouldnt you be more likely to properly maintain a new car than an older one that isnt necesarily important to you?

Is it ture that Motor come Stock with a Ball Bearing Turbo?

nope,. Mr Cadle looked up the part number on it, and discovered it is exaclty the same as the BB turbo with a differently oriented compressor housing.

So, from what I understand the eneinge is Just newer then the regular BB engine? Even for that I would buy it. I would love a 97 engine in my 95 200SX:D

Originally posted by HotshtSR20
nope,. Mr Cadle looked up the part number on it, and discovered it is exaclty the same as the BB turbo with a differently oriented compressor housing.

No, you are not entirely correct the look at the following;

TURBINE PART NUMBERS

U12 14411-79E00 Garrett TB2539 202hp OG T-25
U13 14411-1E001/RR150 Garrett TB2547 and ? 207hp NEW T-25
W10 14411-1E001/RR150 Garrett TB2547 and ? 226 hp SAME T-25 as above plus new turbo manifold
W11 4411-I don't know but is diffently ball bearing 226hp Identical to above except ball bearing

These are the part number of a Nissan Avenir turbine found on the center section of turbo:

TURBINE*****VEHICLE*****COMPHSG***COMPWHL*CNTRHSG
PT#*********CHASIS*****TYPE A/R****TYPE TRIM*TYPE

14411-RR150**U13*AW10**T25**.80****T25**70***T25
14411-1E001**U13*AW10**T25**.80****T25**60***T25

Originally posted by SE R Madness
So, from what I understand the eneinge is Just newer then the regular BB engine? Even for that I would buy it. I would love a 97 engine in my 95 200SX:D

Yes, the oldest possible SR20DET Avenir you can get is the W10 which is a 1996 engine.
Note: Avenir comes with newer turbo manifold.

The oldest possible SR20DET Bluebird you can get is the U12 which is a 1989 engine.

Originally posted by SE R Madness
Is it ture that Motor come Stock with a Ball Bearing Turbo?

Yes, the Avenir W11 SR20DET comes with a ball bearing turbo.

Check it out for yourself;
Ref: www.nissan-global.com/GCC/Japan/NEWS/2532.htm

SR20DET
Max. Power (PS/rpm) 230/6,000 rpm approx. 226 bhp
Max. Torque (kg-m/rpm) 28.0/3,600 rpm approx. 203 lbft
Comp. Ratio 8:5:1
Quote from website:

This 2.0-liter in line 4-cyclinder intercooled turbocharged engine with a high-efficiency ball bearing turbocharger generates maximum power of 230PS to provide sporty performance and exceptional driving pleasure.

I don't know about y'all, but I'm about 200 times more likely to believe the man who works for the company that built the turbos comparing part numbers on a production piece than to believe a press release from a company that's been known to exagerrate specifications.

TB25
Referencia Aplicación Cartucho Juego reparación A/R Sustituido por
TB2502
466480-0001 NISSAN 430425-0020 709342-0001 0.49 466480-0008
466480-0002 NISSAN 430425-0036 709342-0001 0.49 466480-0008
466480-0003 NISSAN 431876-0007 709143-0001 0.49 466480-0008
466480-0004 NISSAN 431876-0007 709143-0001 0.49 466480-0008
466480-0005 NISSAN 431876-0018 709143-0001 0.49 466480-0008
466480-0006 NISSAN 431876-0024 709143-0001 0.49 466480-0008
466480-0007 NISSAN 431876-0024 709143-0001 0.49 466480-0008
466480-0008 NISSAN 431876-0064 709143-0001 0.49
TB2503
466494-0002 NISSAN 430425-0036 709342-0001
466494-0003 NISSAN 431876-0007 709143-0001
TB2504
466546-0002 NISSAN 430425-0036 709342-0001 0.49 466546-0008
466546-0003 NISSAN 431876-0007 709143-0001 0.49 466546-0008
466546-0004 NISSAN 431876-0007 709143-0001 0.49 466546-0008
466546-0005 NISSAN 431876-0018 709143-0001 0.49 466546-0008
466546-0006 NISSAN 431876-0024 709143-0001 0.49 466546-0008
466546-0007 NISSAN 431876-0064 709143-0001 0.49 466546-0008
466546-0008 NISSAN 431876-0064 709143-0001 0.49
TB2505
466548-0001 NISSAN 430425-0020 709342-0001 0.49 466548-0014
466548-0002 NISSAN 430425-0020 709342-0001 0.49 466548-0014
466548-0003 NISSAN 430425-0020 709342-0001 0.49 466548-0014
466548-0004 NISSAN 431876-0006 709143-0001 0.49 466548-0014
466548-0005 NISSAN 431876-0007 709143-0001 0.49 466548-0014
466548-0007 NISSAN 431876-0007 709143-0001 0.49 466548-0014
466548-0008 NISSAN 431876-0007 709143-0001 0.49 466548-0014
466548-0009 NISSAN 431876-0018 709143-0001 0.49 466548-0014
466548-0010 NISSAN 431876-0018 709143-0001 0.49 466548-0014
466548-0011 NISSAN 431876-0024 709143-0001 0.49 466548-0014
466548-0012 NISSAN 431876-0064 709143-0001 0.49 466548-0014
466548-0013 NISSAN 431876-0064 709143-0001 0.49 466548-0014
466548-0014 NISSAN 431876-0064 709143-0001 0.49
TB2519
465667-0001 NISSAN 431876-0019 709143-0001 0.64 465667-0009
465667-0002 NISSAN 431876-0019 709143-0001 0.49 465667-0010
465667-0003 NISSAN 431876-0025 709143-0001 0.49 465667-0010
465667-0004 NISSAN 431876-0025 709143-0001 0.49 465667-0010
465667-0005 NISSAN 431876-0049 709143-0001 0.64 465667-0009
465667-0006 NISSAN 431876-0049 709143-0001 0.49 465667-0010
465667-0007 NISSAN 431876-0049 709143-0001 0.64 465667-0009
465667-0008 NISSAN 431876-0049 709143-0001 0.49 465667-0010
465667-0009 NISSAN 431876-0071 709143-0001 0.64
465667-0010 NISSAN 431876-0071 709143-0001 0.49
TB2520
465723-0001 NISSAN 444321-0003 709143-0001 0.86
465723-0002 NISSAN 444321-0005 709143-0001 0.86
465723-0003 NISSAN 444321-0007 709143-0001 0.86 466723-0004
465723-0004 NISSAN 444321-0009 709143-0001 0.86
TB2523
465767-0001 NISSAN 431876-0019 709143-0001 0.64
465767-0002 NISSAN 431876-0019 709143-0001 0.49 465767-0006
465767-0003 NISSAN 431876-0025 709143-0001 0.49 465767-0006
465767-0004 NISSAN 431876-0049 709143-0001 0.49 465767-0006
465767-0005 NISSAN 431876-0049 709143-0001 0.49 465767-0006
465767-0006 NISSAN 431876-0071 709143-0001 0.49
TB2525
465795-0001 NISSAN 431876-0021 709143-0001 0.64 465795-0004
465795-0002 NISSAN 431876-0026 709143-0001 0.64 465795-0004
465795-0003 NISSAN 431876-0050 709143-0001 0.64 465795-0004
465795-0004 NISSAN 431876-0072 709143-0001 0.64
TB2527
465941-0001 NISSAN 431876-0025 709143-0001 0.49 465941-0005
465941-0002 NISSAN 431876-0025 709143-0001 0.49 465941-0005
465941-0003 NISSAN 431876-0049 709143-0001 0.49 465941-0005
465941-0004 NISSAN 431876-0049 709143-0001 0.49 465941-0005
465941-0005 NISSAN 431876-0071 709143-0001 0.49
465941-0006 NISSAN 431876-0071 709143-0001 0.49
465941-0007 NISSAN 431876-0071 709143-0001 0.49
TB2533
452022-0001 NISSAN 443854-0044 709143-0001 0.49
TB2539
466075-0001 NISSAN 709143-0001 0.64 466075-0004
466075-0002 NISSAN 431876-0033 709143-0001 0.64 466075-0004
466075-0003 NISSAN 709143-0001 0.64 466075-0004
466075-0004 NISSAN 431876-0065 709143-0001 0.64
TB2541
466113-0001 NISSAN 709143-0001 0.64 466113-0004
466113-0002 NISSAN 709143-0001 0.64 466113-0004
466113-0003 NISSAN 431876-0067 709143-0001 0.64 466113-0004
466113-0004 NISSAN 431876-0065 709143-0001 0.64
TB2547
466173-0001 NISSAN 431876-0033 709143-0001 466176-0005
466173-0002 NISSAN 709143-0001 466176-0005
466173-0003 NISSAN 431876-0065 709143-0001 466176-0005
466173-0004 NISSAN 431876-0065 709143-0001 466176-0005
466173-0005 NISSAN 431876-0065 709143-0001
TB2557
452047-0001 NISSAN 431876-0048 709143-0001 0.49
452047-0002 NISSAN 431876-0078 709143-0001 0.49
452047-0003 NISSAN 431876-0099 709143-0001 0.49
TB2574
479022-0001 NISSAN 431876-0102 709143-0001 0.64
TB2575
479037-0001 NISSAN 431876-0102 709143-0001 0.64
TB25
452129-0001 NISSAN 443854-0125 709143-0001
452129-0002 NISSAN 443854-0125 709143-0001
452129-0003 NISSAN 443854-0125 709143-0001
TB25
452162-0001 NISSAN 431876-0100 709143-0001
452162-0002 NISSAN 431876-0100 709143-0001


Here's the link
Find out what turbo you really have.
http://www.turbomaster.com/eng/default.asp

I think Charlie is right about the ball-bearing turbos on NEW Avenir motors. I gave Rob the part numbers off my Avenir turbo, and he confirmed that it was basically a Bluebird turbo. However, my engine is a '96. There are a few VERY rare '98 and newer Avenir engines that have ball-bearing turbos. I've yet to see anyone in the US with this engine though (illustrating that not many people have them, not that they're impossible to get). I have heard/read this from many credible sources.

If you want an absolute answer, someone with a '98 Avenir (maybe even newer) motor, should get the part numbers and verify them with Rob. That would be definitive (instead of people like me tossing around what we *think* is true)

Edit: spelling

Exactly what G20ps said anyone with a 8/98 Avenir engine need to post their turbine part number because I personaly don't know the turbine part number I lost it. If you know it I can look it up for you. So basically anyone with a black top Avenir SR20DET post your turbine part number so we could confirm this, I am always one to share any good information I have,just look at all my post and all the info I share with you guys, I never act like some people, that think there shit is all top secret sooner are later will find out and I'll post it, if it wasn't for me alot of people wouldn't even know about the Avenir SR20DET I didn't try to keep it from you and shortly after I started posting info on the Avenir, here comes Miko selling Avenir turbo kits, JGY selling Avenir SR20DET, I'm not saying Miko didn't know about the Avenir but it funny that none were sold prior to my post. JGY didn't know what a Avenir SR20DET was for the matter a lot of people including engine importes don't even know go figure that why you can buy a Avenir silver top or black top for the same price as a BB DET, they don't know I'm just trying to let everyone know there options, so unless you help and post part numbers, etc you ain't gonna know neither will anyone else, people need to quite acting like they invented the shit we already know this shit isn't that easy to get or hands on but there is alot of us and some of us are bound to have the missing links.