What can the GTI-R internals handle?

Thanx:cool:

a conservative guess is 400+ whp. Pretty sure on that....

Khiem

i put down 434 whp with my stock gti-r internals

jimmy
1996 200sx gti-r
1992 sentra se-r

I'm not sure what whp stands for(wheel horse power?)but in th uk,most gtir motors over 300-330bhp(brake horse power at flywheel) will have been rebuilt with at least forged pistons,a reinforced headgasket,balanced internals etc.They will take more,but for how long?

whp=wheel horsepower
434whp=close to 500bhp

i have heard of some gti-r's in japan making almost 700bhp on stock internals.

jimmy
1996 200sx gti-r
1992 sentra se-r

I read of a Jun 700 bhp engine but it definitely wasn't stock.It was bored out with liners and every extra you can think of.I think the cost was something like $100,000.Not sure if that was US or NZ but it's a lot either way.
I know dozens of gtir owners and the general consensus is have a rebuild over 300 ish(flywheel) bhp.This power is generally made at around 15-20 psi,though there are going to be variations either way on this.Mine made 333bhp at 16.5psi and I'm looking into a rebuild.
The max any gtir engine is making in the UK(without NOS) is around 400bhp(flywheel)and that's with approx.$15000 spent on the engine,swapping cams,turbo,i/c,headwork,300zx AFM,bigger injectors,new engine management/mapping etc etc.There are about 1/2 dozen owners having a stroker kit fitted which will take capacity to 2/2 litres but this costs around $7-8000 alone!
I also know a few owners whose engines have let go at around 15-20psi boost,though this was partly down to a low octane rating of the fuel used.
Not calling you a liar or anything,just letting you know how it is over here.

That might be true for European folks. But we all know the crux of a good running high horsepower car is tuning. With the advantage of JWT, stock SR20DE's have made 409hp to the wheels, meaning this is somewhere's around 475 crank hp. I would imagine that a lower compression version of this motor with bigger and better pieces could produce more power. Sometimes it's better on this side of the pond.

What do you mean by JWT?I would imagine it's either down to UK rolling roads reading low or US ones reading high.Has anyone had a proper engine dyno reading taken?Over here,***** really believes really big bhp claims unless they can back it up with one.
An example,a friend of mine has bought a fully rebuilt gtir recently.It has forged pistons,Motec engine management(with anti lag and launch control),T35 roller bearing turbo,Piper cams,custom cold air box,front mounted i/c,water injection etc.This car ONLY(lol)makes around 400bhp(flywheel)at 25-30psi.
Similarly,another owner I know has put his car up for sale:
Nissan GTi-R
K reg 1993
49000 miles from new
4000 since full HITEQ engine rebuild, car is used as a second car and garaged
every night.

Brief Spec:

Full engine rebuild at HITEQ Performance Centre only 4000 miles ago.

HKS Forged Pistons
HKS Front Mounted Intercooler
HKS uprated clutch
HKS iridium plugs
HKS 2mm Metal Head gasket
HKS High Lift Cams
HKS Super sequential Dump Valve
HKS Super Flow Air Filter
Cusco Oil Seperator
Mongoose Stainless Steel Exhaust
Blue Samco Hoses
Hiteq Air Induction Pipework Conversion
Carbon Fibre Plug Cover
Brand New Oil and Water Pumps
Fully Rebuilt Gearbox
Spec R Header Tank
High Flow Fuel Pump
Relocated Battery
Mocal Oil Cooler
Powder Coated Rocker Cover
Nismo Solid Engine mounts
Gold Fuel Rail
Fully lightened and balanced Flywheel,Conrods and Crank.
Hybrid Turbo with 360 degree bearing and modified compressor

GAB adjustable dampers
Custom made lowering springs
Cusco Front strut brace
BK Racing 158 17 inch alloys with Goodyear Eagle F1 tyres (3 months old)
Godspeed 308 mm grooved and drilled discs with 4 pot callipers and Ferrodo race
pads

Standard Seats and BRIDE racing bucket seat
HKS evc 4 electronic boost controller
HKS S-AFC fuel computer
APEXI ITC ignition timing controller
180 MPH speedo conversion
Pillar mounted AIR/FUEL guage and BOOST guage (psi)

Modified front bumper to fit front mount
Laguna splitter

Since rebuild the car has ran at 0.85 bar and only 1.15/1.2 bar boost.

Rolling roaded at Well Lane during 200 plus club shootout at 382 BHP and 360
Torque, but although the rollers were tested on a few more cars and proved to
be spot on I personally think the car runs around 330 to 340 bhp.

For more details and information please email Adrian.Cash@b...



Sorry for length of copied bit,but I thought some of you may be interested in mods done.My point being though,even the owner of the car thinks it's approx 330 bhp.

JWT stands for Jim Wolf Technologies, they reprogram ECU's for just about any Nissan. This keeps us from having to resort to black boxes or necessitating stand alones when turboing our cars. When you say bhp, do you mean wheel horse power? That is the numbers I was talking about, verified dyno'd wheel horse power. There are a number of 350+ whp stock SR20DE's running around stateside. Plus we're all FWD, and don't have the drag of AWD you guys have, so our dyno's will automatically read higher on similar mods. Actually alot of us have had dyno's done, go to O2induction.com and look at the dyno charts of a JDM SR20DE (internally stock, including cams) out of a Primera, turbo'd. The guy who owned that car was Big Boost, you can get the particulars from him, he's on the list. He made 320 to the wheels. There are other dyno charts floating around, if you're interested.

Very simple reason the UK guys aren't making the kind of power you routinely see over here: not enough turbo. Too many of the UK tuners are enamored with the GT25 ball-bearing based turbos, but with a 54mm inducer diameter, these do not have a prayer of making the kind of power we are talking about here. In order to make 500+ hp, you need *MINIMUM* a 65mm turbine wheel (I don't think this will do it), preferably something in the 72-75mm range. Some of the guys in the UK have literally spent 10's of thousands on their motors, but they are not using the types of turbos required to generate big numbers. When some daring souls in the UK dump or modify the stock exhaust manifold sufficiently to fit a big turbo and an external wastegate, then you will start to see some big big numbers coming out of the UK. The high HP US cars are all using turbos of much larger flow capacity than the UK guys are, and that's why the US cars are kicking ass.

Many of the failures guys in the UK are seeing are, IMO, the result of high reversion rates caused by excessive backpressure and the accompaning high EGT's. Shaggy was able to lay down 360 whp on pump gas with a totally streetable ECU program and no water purely because he has a big ass turbo that doesn't backpressure the engine.

Once the UK guys step up to the bigger turbos, they'll figure out that the rest of the world isn't lying about hp figures :-)

Hi rob et all,

I am in the UK and am about to order a tiAl 40mm wastegate and uprated turbo, currently looking at a HKS GT3037 with 52 trim compressor and 0.73 A/R what sort of crank hp can i roughly expect, also i havent ordered the turbo yet, do you have any better recommendation? The car has fully lightened and balanced lump with 7.8 to 1 compression ratio, used on the street but main design of turbo etc for drags hoping for very late 10's/early 11's

What do you guys think

Cheers

on just pump gas and no water injection with just a t3t4 turbo upgrade i made the 434whp with my stock gti-r motor. rob is correct uk guys use smaller turbos cause they love the 0-60km times they have.

jimmy
1996 200sx gti-r
1992 sentra se-r

Hi there,

So which turbo would you recommend i go for to break this trend and get some fast times at the big meet on the august 10th weekend and I can say its thanks to you guys on here. 1/4 mile times are the main concern.

Cheers in advance

Originally posted by Surry
Hi rob et all,

I am in the UK and am about to order a tiAl 40mm wastegate and uprated turbo, currently looking at a HKS GT3037 with 52 trim compressor and 0.73 A/R what sort of crank hp can i roughly expect, also i havent ordered the turbo yet, do you have any better recommendation? The car has fully lightened and balanced lump with 7.8 to 1 compression ratio, used on the street but main design of turbo etc for drags hoping for very late 10's/early 11's



The 3037 as spec'd should support about ~450 crank hp at ~24 psi of boost.

If you want more power, run the 0.87 (I think??? 0.8x) A/R housing and the 56 trim compressor (turbo lag will be worse).

The 52 trim 0.73 is very streetable.

the gt3037 it is then, unless someone can recommend a turbo that i could get my local garrett dealer to build for me as a one off which would produce similar performance for less cash

Cheers all

First off,I'm not calling anyone a liar and don't want to fall out with anyone either.A friend has(as I mentioned before)a roller bearing T35 turbo and Motec(amongst many mods)Surry will know it as Paul Hardcastle's old car.It's around 400bhp at the flywheel or crank as you say.That's at around 25-30psi.The standard block isn't going to take double the power or even more without strengthening with continuous use.
Also,no GTiR's I know of use the T25 turbo as it comes with the T28 as standard.Quite a few owbers have opted for a new manifold for better flow,external wastegate and bigger turbo potential.I can't see many owners fitting gargantuam turbos though as the type of roads we have over here aren't really suited to laggy units-lots of twisty roads and roundabouts:).
What times do people get with these big bhp cars,and on what boost,with and without slicks?I would expect a circa 500bhp FF car to be in the high 10s.
We too have a booming motor industry and tuners with 10 years experience with this engine.
Again,I'm not calling anyone but maybe think some RR's are a little optimistic.

Hi Skidusmarkus et all,

I am definelty getting this HKS turbo and will hopefully also have a 1/2 dog box installed by usc at santapod in august this year, i dont mind being the guinea pig to see if i can get around 450plus with the hks turbo, we will see in the very near future.

Cheers all again for the advice.

Originally posted by skiddusmarkus
First off,I'm not calling anyone a liar and don't want to fall out with anyone either.A friend has(as I mentioned before)a roller bearing T35 turbo and Motec(amongst many mods)Surry will know it as Paul Hardcastle's old car.It's around 400bhp at the flywheel or crank as you say.That's at around 25-30psi.


What is this 'T35' turbo? There is such a thing as a 'GT35'-based ball bearing turbo, but this is a brand new turbo, very rare. I would be shocked if this is what he has. I'm not calling names here, just that terminology in the turbocharger business is confusing at times. Can you please post some more information about this turbo, specifically wheel diameters?


Also,no GTiR's I know of use the T25 turbo as it comes with the T28 as standard.


Right. My fault. 'GT25' in Garrett speak refers to a 54mm inducer diameter turbine wheel. A 'T-28' is nothing but a T25-sized turbine with a 60mm ('T-3') diameter compressor. Most of the turbo upgrades that I have seen on UK cars are using a 54mm diameter 76 trim ball bearing turbine with some sort of 'upgraded' compressor wheel. The problem is that this wheel barely flows any more than the stock turbine wheel. And that is why the cars are corked up. Get somebody to measure turbine inlet pressure, and make a plot of intake manifold pressure and exhaust manifold pressure as a function of engine speed. You will see what I mean.


Quite a few owbers have opted for a new manifold for better flow,external wastegate and bigger turbo potential.


I haven't seen any of the cars with a larger-than 54 mm inducer turbine, but then again, I'm not exactly an expert on UK cars. I can only comment on what I have observed lurking on the UK GTi-R list.


I can't see many owners fitting gargantuam turbos though as the type of roads we have over here aren't really suited to laggy units-lots of twisty roads and roundabouts:).


Unfortunately, fact of life with small displacement motors is that as you try to push power output, you can make higher levels of power, but only over a narrower range. You cannot have huge peak horsepower and broad power range. You can, however, get very good performance from ~4500 to 7500 RPM with the very large (500 hp capable) turbos.


What times do people get with these big bhp cars,and on what boost,with and without slicks?


Well, everyone runs slicks since the cars are FWD and laying down 500 whp with street tires is impossible.


I would expect a circa 500bhp FF car to be in the high 10s.


Yes, thereabouts.


Again,I'm not calling anyone but maybe think some RR's are a little optimistic.

I have quite a bit of faith in the dynojet dynos.

T35 is a T3/T4 hybrid.Surry,if it's the PAR gearsset you're after,look at this thrhttp://www.timwright.co.uk/gtir/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=230ead.
I'm after one,so maybe they'll do a discount for two.

skiddusmarkus,

How is DP Motorsports? I know Bruce Spence, and his car is there 24 hrs. Instead of JWT they have differant *** companies that make ecu's for their cars. I don't know if they are better or worse, but the turbos sound right to me. Could the drive train be a factor?