ok so i currently have a rwd s13det running a t518z turbo, 650cc injectors etc

now instead of upgrading cams i am considering doing a vet swap

i am thinking the 20v will be a much better starting point for a few reasons:

vvl solenoid will clear the firewall

already runs a cas (will my s13 loom plug straight in?)

already runs coilpacks (will my s13 ones bolt straight in?)

head apparently flows a lot better than sr20v making it more of an upgrade

the 280deg 12mm and 11.15mm lift cams with less over lap than the sr16ve cams seem to be the best option for a turbo set up. (feel free to correct me if i am wrong) alsi i just dont see the 10.xxmm 26x cams being much of an upgrade? might as well just get cams for my det

so from this i am thinking 20v is the go

also if i just bolt the 20v head on what can i safely rev too?

reasons i am thinking vvl over simple cam upgrade is it should spoil up my turbo quicker, have more top end than a step one camshaft, and better flowing head bit more unique down here in aus

things that are making me do a simple cam upgrade are, $$$, i already have a powerfc, z32, and greedy ebc, so will have to sell all these and get a haltech to run the head as apparently powerfc aint up to the task

also you yanks seem to be getting very good results with turbo ve, but it's hard to compare as apparently your dyno's read higher than ours. also from what i have read, comparing power to injector size it does seem to be true, so i would like first hand expirence of going from det to vet

also can you remap the det ecu to run vet?


so yeah thats my situation let the opinions fly

just one more q, what compression would i get with a 20v bolted onto a det block? if it is high can ibring it down with a 1.8mm head gasket or something? i know they make them for dets just dont know about vet

Due to the differences in blocks between the RWD and FWD, you will need to fit the head by itself ot the waterpump/thermostat will be an obvious problem otherwise.

Fit a VE or 20V head onto the DET block will yield a higher compression ratio(8.5:1 up to approx 9.1:1) with a 2.0mm headgasket giving around 8.5:1CR again. Of course, this compression will be fine with the exttra head flow of the VE motor(stock VET motor runs 9.1:1)

PowerFC can run it but I know Bikirom runs a VE+T setup very well and will allow you to keep the Z32 and sell of the EBC, as Bikirom has boost control(and VVL control) along with a few other cool features.

Also, the SR20VE head would be a much cheaper upgrade and there is an Aussie member here with a good condition VE head(PM me for his contact details)

yeah the plan is to use the head from a ve and bolt it onto the rwd bottom end

i am aware a 20ve will be cheaper, but i was thinking it might not be that much of an upgrade over aftermarket cams. Plus i will have to customize the vvl solenoids, make cas and possibly run after market ignition. or am i wrong in assuming this? the 20v seems to be more $$$ but much less hassle and more of an upgrade. How much more flow will a 20ve have over a det and how much less than a 20v?

so your saying the 9.1:1 compression will have similar knock and detonation characteristics to the standard 8.5:1 with a det head? i was thinking of having around 8.8:1 compression to be on the safe side, but if the bottom end will still hold up with 20psi and 260+rwkw's then i have no problem running 9.1:1

also can i just use a s15 intake manifold? or a greddy one? as the standard ve manifold will face the firewall right?

so are you saying power fc wont or will run ve? Also can you use the bikirom with a det ecu or does it need to be a ve computer? i will be using jeff from speedlab to tune, i think he just uses the same eproms that dr drift uses. might have to have a chat with him

The stock VE head is a huge difference, especially in head flow over a worked DE with equivalent cams. The VE low lobes allow low rpm spool up and driveability(and fuel economy) while the hi lobes really allow lots of air flow.

The CAS is easy, there is a few threads already on various CAS setups that can be used, however I would modify a N14 dizzy to become the necessary CAS for the ECU. The stock DET coils will work with this setup as well. You can also use the PowerFC with this setup if you prefer. Bikirom can be fitted to any SR20DE or SR20DET ECU so using it with a S13 DET ECU will allow you to use the stock coil packs, accept the CAS input from the N14 dizzy(take the rotor button and dizzy cap off it) The only hassle is the VVL solenoids and their location.

Also, as the VE head will have less inlet restriction due to the hi lobe cams so you can forget about running 20psi as your turbo will probably be running out of compressor efficiency by then. Reason being, you can get the same amount of airflow from much less psi so you produce the same amount of power on less boost. Of course, with the VE cams you are still compressing the air inside the cylinder to the same pressures but the head can flow so much better and is more detonation resistant.

You will need to modify the VE inlet plenum as the regular RWD stuff will not fit. As your using a RWD bloc, you can use a stock RWD headgasket of a suitable thickness. The VVL solenoids will need to be tapped seperately. Shit, I think I have an idea about the solenoids and removing the VVL solenoid from the head, having oil pressure from the oil pressure switch enter a remote mounted VVL solenoid setup and the outlets having a pair of speedflow fittings into the head...

More info here: http://www.sr20forum.com/sr20ve-sr16ve/159601-regards-rwd-vvl.html

ok bit of conflicting info as i have heard i cant use the power fc due to there not being enough range in tune from hi lobe to low lobe

in regards to the turbo i believe hard tuned is the only tune :biggthump so i will pump out as much psi as the turbo will handle people have whacked 29psi in a det with this turbo so i will still aim for 20psi:tongue:

its good to know the head is a more detonation resistant, i still might put a 1.4-1.8mm head gasket on. what are the standard ve thickness? is it smaller than det? i will do all the calculations for compression after i buy the head anyway, if the head is more resistant to detonation a 9.1:1 wont be the end of the world

will the det coilpacks bolt onto the ve rocker cover? or will i have to use leads from each pack?

i still think a 20 will be best as the ports are bigger and it has huge stock cams, but a ve might be a consideration

ok bit of conflicting info as i have heard i cant use the power fc due to there not being enough range in tune from hi lobe to low lobe

in regards to the turbo i believe hard tuned is the only tune :biggthump so i will pump out as much psi as the turbo will handle people have whacked 29psi in a det with this turbo so i will still aim for 20psi:tongue:

its good to know the head is a more detonation resistant, i still might put a 1.4-1.8mm head gasket on. what are the standard ve thickness? is it smaller than det? i will do all the calculations for compression after i buy the head anyway, if the head is more resistant to detonation a 9.1:1 wont be the end of the world

will the det coilpacks bolt onto the ve rocker cover? or will i have to use leads from each pack?

i still think a 20 will be best as the ports are bigger and it has huge stock cams, but a ve might be a consideration

Do you have a supplier in mind getting you a 20V cyl head? Or did you indeed found one?
I have recently bought a 20V motor and am curious wether we will see more of these in Australia

i have a suplier in japan that will find me one

how much did you pay for yours out of interest?

he found me a 20ve for aud$790 landed dont know how good this is?, but a 20v will be a LOT more and harder to find

i have a suplier in japan that will find me one

how much did you pay for yours out of interest?

he found me a 20ve for aud$790 landed dont know how good this is?, but a 20v will be a LOT more and harder to find
There is about 3 of these in the USA, one in NZ and one on its way to Australia, wich will give you an idea of availabilaty. I paid close to $3000AU for mine inc shipping, import duties and GST. I could't find a importer that could get me one of these, so I had to use my contact in Japan to source me one hence all the extra cost's and normally when you speak to one of these guys in Japan, they are not to keen exporting something like that to us due to all the red tape involved with customs.
$790 for a 20VE if pretty good, but only good if you really want to have a 20VE. With what you want to achieve 20V is the way to go.
I had 3 20VE's before and is now time to step up. Almost lost confidence in finding a 20V and was willing to pay $3000 for a new cyl head without the manifold.
Gerry

Correction... 2 we know of in NZ, the first one that EVLNXR found and just got beaten to was going for a price that would make you cry...

hmm interesting

yeah i have a contact in japan also, and he will ship to me, just hope he can find one, i know it aint gonna be easy, and as you said getting a new cylinder head from nissan for around $3k is also an option as i dont want the rest of the motor anyway due to it being a rwd.

i am very interested in your set up, when its all done let me know the difference between the 20v and the sr20ve as i agree that the 20v is more suited to my needs

ok bit of conflicting info as i have heard i cant use the power fc due to there not being enough range in tune from hi lobe to low lobe

in regards to the turbo i believe hard tuned is the only tune :biggthump so i will pump out as much psi as the turbo will handle people have whacked 29psi in a det with this turbo so i will still aim for 20psi:tongue:

its good to know the head is a more detonation resistant, i still might put a 1.4-1.8mm head gasket on. what are the standard ve thickness? is it smaller than det? i will do all the calculations for compression after i buy the head anyway, if the head is more resistant to detonation a 9.1:1 wont be the end of the world

will the det coilpacks bolt onto the ve rocker cover? or will i have to use leads from each pack?

i still think a 20 will be best as the ports are bigger and it has huge stock cams, but a ve might be a consideration

The PowerFC can be tuned to suit a VVL type engine, as the 20V head is a single VVL engagement and just need to set the fuel and ignition maps up as per normal. Everything under VVL rpm is tuned to suit low lobes, above VVL rpm is tuned to suit hi lobes. The transition point is easy to map as well with a few hours of dyno time.

The turbo will be struggling to reach 20psi with the VE heads airflow unless your keen on some really big injectors. I would suggest a 2.0mm headgasket as they are a little more common than a 1.8mm. Standard is 1.6mm which is same as the RWD stock DET gaskets.

DET coil packs can be adapted to the VE rocker cover with minor work.

well i have heard that It has been attempted with a power fc but the problem is that on the big cam the VE is so far away from standard that it goes beyond the bounds of the base/background map (ie, the ones you can't adjust). The honda power fc's it uses a couple of maps and jumps between the two depending on which cam it's on but this functionality simply isn't available in the nissan fc's. i know jeffs remaps can have up to 4 different maps, so maybe it would be possible to set up a map switch with the msd8969, so that the map switches as the cams do.....dont know if this is possible yet as i have to have a chat to jeff about it

also standard headgasket size on the s13det is .8mm not 1.6mm, also i can get a 1.2mm, 1.4mm, 1.5mm, 1.8mm and 2mm all relatively easy as long as i can use a rwd det gasket. If i need a ve gasket then i suppose the rules change

ohh yeah and i will be running 800cc top feed injectors with the 20v and sell my 650cc side feed one. No point having big cams, high flowing head etc without the fuel system to match. ALTHOUGH I FAIL TO SEE HOW INJECTOR SIZE WILL HELP PRESSURISE THE CYLINDERS AND INCREASE MY TURBO'S EFFICIENCY????????? PLEASE EXPLAIN?

another thing i am a little worried about is the 8cm rear housing on the t518z not flowing enough air and becoming the biggest restriction in the link, and therefore canceling out any benefit the higher flowing head will create???? i dont really want to change turbo as i love the t518z

I know of two VE+T's in Japan running a Power FC(one in a Micra/March of all things) with no problems. Consider how many DET's are running over 350kw@wheels on PowerFC's and you can see that the airflow is similiar and the tuning scale is possible. All you need is to setup the load scales to suit a Z32 MAF, the injectors should be fine and the load scale should require minimal adjustment. I could probably setup a tune reasonably close to perfect with 45 minutes of work. The high fuel curve and ignitiong timing is nothing radically different from a DET with stage 4 cams.

S13 DET stock headgasket is 1.6mm which crushes down to 1.5mm and gives a 8.5:1 compression ratio. Reference (http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003web-catalogue/e106_SR20DE[T]_gasket.html) and check the top right grid at the bottom of the page :) A compression ratio calculator will also confirm a 1.5~1.6mm headgasket gives a stock DET 8.5:1 compression ratio... unless your running 9:1CR stock??
You can use the stock DET gasket, as the VVL oil solenoids will be fed from the oil pressure switch via a T piece to the VVL solenoids.

I never said injector size will affect turbo effiency. I am saying, that to reach 20psi on your current turbo, the injectors would be over 100% duty cycle and therefore, you would not reach 20psi as your motor would become a molten mass of alloy.

well i have heard that It has been attempted with a power fc but the problem is that on the big cam the VE is so far away from standard that it goes beyond the bounds of the base/background map (ie, the ones you can't adjust). The honda power fc's it uses a couple of maps and jumps between the two depending on which cam it's on but this functionality simply isn't available in the nissan fc's. i know jeffs remaps can have up to 4 different maps, so maybe it would be possible to set up a map switch with the msd8969, so that the map switches as the cams do.....dont know if this is possible yet as i have to have a chat to jeff about it

also standard headgasket size on the s13det is .8mm not 1.6mm, also i can get a 1.2mm, 1.4mm, 1.5mm, 1.8mm and 2mm all relatively easy as long as i can use a rwd det gasket. If i need a ve gasket then i suppose the rules change

ohh yeah and i will be running 800cc top feed injectors with the 20v and sell my 650cc side feed one. No point having big cams, high flowing head etc without the fuel system to match. ALTHOUGH I FAIL TO SEE HOW INJECTOR SIZE WILL HELP PRESSURISE THE CYLINDERS AND INCREASE MY TURBO'S EFFICIENCY????????? PLEASE EXPLAIN?

another thing i am a little worried about is the 8cm rear housing on the t518z not flowing enough air and becoming the biggest restriction in the link, and therefore canceling out any benefit the higher flowing head will create???? i dont really want to change turbo as i love the t518z

are you serious i cant reach 20psi with 800cc injectors?

remember if i go 20v i need top fed injectors anyway

hmm i might get a 1.8 or 2mm det gasket

The VE motor consumes enormous amounts of air, so it is harder for the turbo to pressurise the inlet manifold when every time a inlet valve opens the plenum and intercooler piping decompresses. The is even more amplified when your using the 20V head(also used on the SR20VET)

So sure, you can have 800cc injectors but they will probably max out before 20psi with your current turbo due to the airflow of the turbo at that boost pressure. The air temps will probably be a little bit hot as well.

I know of a GT3037S on a VE+T that is past its peak compressor efficiency on just 16psi boost with stock VET cams. He is running 600cc Tomei injectors@4Bar rail pressure and they are running around 93% duty cycle. We only intend on running 13psi with his new custom cams for similiar airflow.

To put it another way, my VY SS 5.7L ute with a pair of turbos is only running 10psi because the engine can consume so much air that the inlet plenum cannot be pressurised although it is flowing enough air for 570Kw@flywheel.

ok i do understand where you are coming from

for now i will most likely go a 20ve head for the time being, maybe upgrade to 20v cams later...and a t67, for now the 20ve head will probably flow enough for my needs

just out of interest how much power is this ve+t making? and the 3037 is a nice turbo choice for a vet imo should be very responsive, but still make a lot of power up top. on a det its a bit too laggy once you upgrade your cams for what i want

Remember, Boost on your guage, is only what the engine cannot feed thru the inlet valves.

The VE+T power output is currently unknown, as it was tuned onroad with a wideband. Once the owner coughs up some $$ for tyres, it will see some dyno time.

Also, FYI the stock SR20VET motor actually runs 10psi boost on the low lobes but once the hi lobes engage, it limits boost to around 6psi as the motor is still consuming the same amount of air. This is why the SR20VET suits a CVT, as the torque output is so linear.

The VE+T power output is currently unknown, as it was tuned onroad with a wideband. Once the owner coughs up some $$ for tyres, it will see some dyno time.

Also, FYI the stock SR20VET motor actually runs 10psi boost on the low lobes but once the hi lobes engage, it limits boost to around 6psi as the motor is still consuming the same amount of air. This is why the SR20VET suits a CVT, as the torque output is so linear.

well if he is running 93% duty cycle on 600cc injectors i would say he has around 280rwkw's. which is a pretty low power figure to be maxing out a 3037