I run Hot Bits coilover/struts on my rally car - they're valved for gravel and rebuildable/revalvable but kind of expensive.

A couple of people have asked me whether it's possible to spec a cheap version of what I have (same spring rates, free length and valving) - but non-coilover, non-adjustable using "cheaper" components.

A lot of club rally guys buy Bilstein HD shocks/stut inserts and have them revalved for gravel - no fitment for B13 though (as far as I can see).

My question is: Does anyone know of a monotube strut or insert that is revalvable and fits B13?

(Don't want to shorten strut housing either)

Thanks,

Robin

Check with Koni.

I've not seen your set-up, but with custom set-ups there is relatively little expense in creating a coilover set-up. If they fab the struts themselves, it's not that hard or time consuming to thread the body.

Even consider a coilover sleeve kit like the GCs or Konis. You pay anywhere from about $300-400US for the kit. The cost of making an OEM type perch, and an OEM type spring will put you in the same ballpark. IMHO someone who wants the ability to revalve will ultimately be best off just getting adjustables.

The adjustability does cost money, but the minute you talk about revalving, you're right up to the cost of the adjustable again.

I just don't think anyone will find a moderately priced acceptable solution. I'm not trying to be negative, but I'm in the process of working through a lot of this for Grover's SCCA ITS SE-R and my SCCA ITS 944.

Originally posted by Geo91SER
Check with Koni.

I've not seen your set-up, but with custom set-ups there is relatively little expense in creating a coilover set-up. If they fab the struts themselves, it's not that hard or time consuming to thread the body.

Even consider a coilover sleeve kit like the GCs or Konis. You pay anywhere from about $300-400US for the kit. The cost of making an OEM type perch, and an OEM type spring will put you in the same ballpark. IMHO someone who wants the ability to revalve will ultimately be best off just getting adjustables.

The adjustability does cost money, but the minute you talk about revalving, you're right up to the cost of the adjustable again.

I just don't think anyone will find a moderately priced acceptable solution. I'm not trying to be negative, but I'm in the process of working through a lot of this for Grover's SCCA ITS SE-R and my SCCA ITS 944.

I guess the problem is starting off with the correct valving - sport/street and race valving differ from good all-around gravel valving. The application would be rallycross and the expense of custom coilovers would be prohibitive. No adjustability (apart from specific initial valving) is really required.

It's the same old problem for rallying (unless you run a Soob, EVO or VW) I suspected it would be difficult to find. The problem would be solved if Bilstein made B13 fitment.

Robin

Originally posted by rallyrobin
My question is: Does anyone know of a monotube strut or insert that is revalvable and fits B13?
Robin

Robin,

is there any particular reason you say MONOTUBE strut?

I cannot really be authoritative on this but I very much doubt you will find any monotube Strut that will do. Most of the mons I have seen are trick aluminum body shocks that would certainly NOT do well on arally car, considering the abuse they take.

Koni for example (Geo's favorite and with good reasons) does not have ANY monotube strut or strut insert. Their monotubes are all shocks.

Chris

Originally posted by hpro123
Koni for example (Geo's favorite and with good reasons) does not have ANY monotube strut or strut insert. Their monotubes are all shocks.


Not true. Koni makes the 2817 high pressure gas monotude strut. It's even double adjustable.

Price is another matter however. :) $1,500 per corner. US$ :eek:

Originally posted by rallyrobin
I guess the problem is starting off with the correct valving


I'd heartily agree with that.

Originally posted by rallyrobin
The problem would be solved if Bilstein made B13 fitment.


Yep. Funny, most of the applications for the Wabbit/Golf and 944 are inserts..... Except from Bilstein. Does Bilstein make any gas monotube inserts? If so, a suitable one might be found. I don't know enough about Bilsteins and their on-line catalog blows goats.

OK, I should know better!


In this case, the 2816 would be a monotube strut cartridge also so make that two instead of none!

It seems that when 4 figure prices per item are concerned I blank out! :)

Chris

Originally posted by hpro123


Robin,

is there any particular reason you say MONOTUBE strut?

I cannot really be authoritative on this but I very much doubt you will find any monotube Strut that will do. Most of the mons I have seen are trick aluminum body shocks that would certainly NOT do well on arally car, considering the abuse they take.

Koni for example (Geo's favorite and with good reasons) does not have ANY monotube strut or strut insert. Their monotubes are all shocks.

Chris

Chris,

Monotube is the rule in rallying - when you think of the kind of movement the shaft goes through as it runs over thousands of potholes - heat. My Hotbits (~$2000 Cdn.) are some of the cheapest rally-specific suspension you can buy - monotube. Top of the line might be Ohlins or Proflex (~$9000 Cdn.) - monotube.

The HotBits are a really sturdy strut body, with a 41mm insert.

An even cheaper solution than what I have is running with a Bilstein HD insert, which Bilstein apparently will revalve for gravel - these can fit any number of strut housings - many of them custom or modified (i.e. try finding off the shelf rally susp. for a Geo Storm). I remember reading somewhere that Bilstein also makes a "rallye" strut or shock.

Robin

Front and rear inserts in stock lowers.

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/grou....src=gr&.view=t

prototypes developed by me. do not call to try to buy.

how muchg is 2000 cdn in us$?

$2,000 Cdn is about a buck fifty, US. Wait a couple of weeks, it'll drop to, like, $1.25 US.

The 'cheap' way to do it would be to just buy the cheap koni inserts and get them valved the way you want. I don't know how well Konis hold up in rallying, but they may work excellent, or so-so. :) I happen to work for Tri-Point Engineering, which is the same company as ProParts, one of the only 2 Koni rebuild centers in the US (other is Truechoice) . I see a lot of dynoing, rebuilding, and building of shocks/struts going on; I think it's one of those things where you get what you pay for. You could theoretically call ProParts and tell them exactly what you want, and they will tell you how much it will cost, but I suspect by the time you've bought inserts, had them dyno'd, revalved, etc. you'll have paid for some decent adjustables (revalvable also ;) ) Ok, so maybe not quite the same $$, but at what point does it stop being 'cheap' ? As far as applications go - ANYTHING at all can be made, but you will pay for it. An example - a customer wanted a specific type of double-adjustable koni for his WRX, but there is no WRX app. They got a set of stock WRX struts, gutted them, cut off the tops, and grafted in revalved BMW-app struts. My point is, i guess, that for a custom-valved rally application, I'm unsure whether there really is a cheap solution. AGX are less than 400 a set, and have a semi-decent adjustment range, but I hear they don't like rallying too much. Most other stuff in the same price range would be similar I suspect.

Both Motivational and Shigspeed (scott Higashi) build struts with koni inserts, and have sold many sets. My hunch is that the same thing from Proparts would cost a bit more.

I believe you can still buy koni inserts and install (rebuild/valve too?) them yourself.

andris