I know Rob doesnt like the 60-1 wheel. I was courious why. I have been told by several turbo companies to go with it. I noticed that Travis (unlucky) is running it now. Although I though Travis was running a 60 trim.

Thanks..

Danny

BTW I was going to have the 60-1 with the big housing (4" inlet and 2.5" outlet) with either stage V T3 turboine and .82 extrude honed housing, or jump to a bigger T4 turbine with a .58 T4 Tangental or bigger housing, maybe .70..

I'm trying to find this out too, a friend was running a 60-1 turbo on his Teg Type-R with a built motor and was running 11.6 on street tires, this wheel seems like it can flow some major CFMs, I would like to know more info., I am asking Louis Anaya about this at the very moment, he sells them,
JCC

I my self would like more info about the 60-1. I am going to get one unless someone can talk me out of it. What is Louis selling them for? I asked him in his for sell thread, but got no response. Rob your input would be greatly appreciated . A buddy of mine runs 60-1 in is drag Honda, and loves it. I have been told that it is a great turbo by many people, but that is going off someone’s word ( not facts ). What are the pro’s and con’s of the 60-1 and say 62-1, and the t3/t04e ( .82 AR 57 trim .60 AR )?

Thanks Nic

I think the 62-1 would be complete overkill, I had the Turbonetics flow charts somewhere...the 60-1 seems like a good drag turbo, but extremely laggy for the street...I dont even know if a 62-1 would spool up at all on our cars, maybe at like 6500rpm, the 60-1 would spool up around 5000rpm I believe. Any word from someone that knows this turbos well would help,
JCC

P.S. if someone could build a motor to rev past 9000rpm then a 60-1 would be perfect....

The compressor has very little bearing on how fast the turbo spools up. The main factor is the exhaust wheel and housing. The reason people don't like to use the 60-1 on our cars is because you need the .82 A/R housing to get full effect out of the added CFM that it flows over the 54 and 57 trim wheels. The stage III wheel in the 82 A/R housing will put the turbo spooling at about 4500rpm on a 9.5:1 compression motor. That's a lot of lag for a street car.. but it will make over 400whp. Step down to the .63 A/R exhaust housing and you get spoolup at about 3200-3500 rpm on a 9.5:1 compression motor. BUT... you will not make over about 375whp. The smaller housing spools faster.. but it gets restrictive and can't flow enough exhaust over that HP level. The 60 trim wheel is fine for the street with the .63 housing.. If you need more than 375whp on the street.. then something is wrong with you. :) You could go with a 54 or 57 trim wheel and get a little faster spool... but not enough to worry about.. With the 60 trim.. you can run less boost and make the same HP. That's my $.02..
Travis

Well About the compressor maps I am getting some mixed emotions about it. A very good source from Turbonetics says all the maps that they publish are crap.. They are just wrong. He says the 60-1 is the best compressor for my needs (550whp on turbo alone) The next turbo he reccomends Is into the T-Series.... Fun Fun..

Danny

Originally posted by unlucky
The compressor has very little bearing on how fast the turbo spools up. The main factor is the exhaust wheel and housing.

I disagree. If by "spools up" you mean, how quickly the shaft speed rises, then yeah, inertia and air resistance aside, the compressor has little effect. However, if "spools up" means making good boost (which is what i think you mean) then the compressor does have a significant effect. Just because the shaft speeds come up quickly doesn't mean they are at a level that the compressor is efficient at. The turbine and compressor need to have sweet spots at similar shaft speeds and flow rates. That said, having a huge compressor won't kill you. I have a "small" T4 turbine side and a very big T04E compressor side. It is a mismatch, but all it means it that the compressor isn't working very hard. BUT, at boost increases, the compressor is sending more air through the engine than the turbine side is optimized for. My car would choke on the turbine if i upped the boost; but it actually drives very well at only 7-8psi.

The reason people don't like to use the 60-1 on our cars is because you need the .82 A/R housing to get full effect out of the added CFM that it flows over the 54 and 57 trim wheels. The stage III wheel in the 82 A/R housing will put the turbo spooling at about 4500rpm on a 9.5:1 compression motor. That's a lot of lag for a street car.. but it will make over 400whp. Step down to the .63 A/R exhaust housing and you get spoolup at about 3200-3500 rpm on a 9.5:1 compression motor. BUT... you will not make over about 375whp. The smaller housing spools faster.. but it gets restrictive and can't flow enough exhaust over that HP level. The 60 trim wheel is fine for the street with the .63 housing.. If you need more than 375whp on the street.. then something is wrong with you. :) You could go with a 54 or 57 trim wheel and get a little faster spool... but not enough to worry about.. With the 60 trim.. you can run less boost and make the same HP. That's my $.02..
Travis

Or you can forget all that crap and just get a 3037 and be done with it :) The best of both worlds; just like it says on the compressor housing: "Power AND Response" Grin.

YMMV etc.
Andris
turbo amateur

Originally posted by TurboMiata
Well About the compressor maps I am getting some mixed emotions about it. A very good source from Turbonetics says all the maps that they publish are crap.. They are just wrong. He says the 60-1 is the best compressor for my needs (550whp on turbo alone) The next turbo he reccomends Is into the T-Series.... Fun Fun..

Danny

Several double-VERY ( :) ) good sources have told me that most of the people at Turdbonetics don't know dick. <shrug>

If you want 550whp and you are looking to the T-series turbos, maybe you need to be let in on the Ultra-super-special-secret Big Fatty Ass Turbo (tm) that Rob is dying for someone to use. Its cheap, its readily available, it should kick ass, but nobody has tried it yet. Turbonetics doesn't have it, Greddy neither. I don't know if it would be a good match for the motor you are running, but on paper it is a good match for the SR20, and I recall Rob recommending SR20 turbo combinations to you so.... Rob? :)

Andris

So what does this all mean to me? I believe I am running the 60-1 with a .82a/r housing. I am making descent power but have alot of "lag" I guess you would call it. I have plenty of time and energy to try something new. Perhaps a 1.02a/r housing? Wonder what it will do on the dyno. Rob was wanting me to try it out sometime. I don’t even know if it would reach full boost. Right now I am building full boost at about 4800rpm. What are the advantages of extrude honing and what effect will I notice on the dyno? I also dont want this to sound like my lag is bothering me. It realy isnt that bad. Im at 10psi by about 4000rpm.

PS the car feels like a rocket ship up top but takes awhile to get there. As my brother would say “ It has big legs”

Originally posted by SENTRA1909
What is Louis selling them for?

Thanks Nic

They are $625.00 + shipping!

thanks Louis I will let you know in the next few days I have a friend in the honda world that is trying to get me a killer deal.

I am still thimking that the 60-1 is the best turbo for me to go with.

Somebody please try to change my mind. I just what the pro's and con's of the turbo.

What's the big turbo Rob is trying to use on the sr20???? if it is a good match then I would like to know more if it is not that expensive....over $1k or so,
JCC

I'll let you'll know soon enough!

Originally posted by JCGator42
What's the big turbo Rob is trying to use on the sr20???? if it is a good match then I would like to know more if it is not that expensive....over $1k or so,
JCC

Its not something I'd think you would want on your average street car. Unless you are looking for 550-600 hp, forget about it. I'll leave it to Rob to provide whatever details he wants, but I'm pretty sure its less than $1k. I don't know a lot of the specifics of this turbo, other than it won't bolt up to a standard manifold flange, so you will have to have a custom manifold or at least an adaptor.

andris

Awesome, sounds good for a drag sentra. I guess I'll wait till Rob can chime in on this,
JCC

The 60-1 is a pretty serious turbo. It likes 9.5:1 compression, a built motor, and over 20 psi of boost. A few of the DSMers in SoCal are running the turbo and not very many have been successful with it. It is laggy as hell on the street and unless you can rev to 9k you don't have enough time in the powerband to really make use of it.

If you decide to go with the 60-1 I would run a nice 50 shot to spool it. Otherwise for a 2.0L motor a 50 trim T04E is a good choice of turbo for the street. On a DSM it can make 500 awhp. Either that or a GT3037 :-).

Originally posted by Phacade GSX
The 60-1 is a pretty serious turbo. It likes 9.5:1 compression, a built motor, and over 20 psi of boost. A few of the DSMers in SoCal are running the turbo and not very many have been successful with it. It is laggy as hell on the street and unless you can rev to 9k you don't have enough time in the powerband to really make use of it.

If you decide to go with the 60-1 I would run a nice 50 shot to spool it. Otherwise for a 2.0L motor a 50 trim T04E is a good choice of turbo for the street. On a DSM it can make 500 awhp. Either that or a GT3037 :-).


I think a lot of you are forgetting that we are still talking about a T3/T4 hybrid. Some of the advantages of going with a Hybrid turbo are the ability to spool faster than a straight T4 turbo and you move large volumes of air with such a large compressor.

The 60-1 is in the T04B family and can flow ~ 55 lb/min while the largest T04E compressor (.60 A/R 60 Trim Wheel) can only flow 53 lb/min. Although many people have used the T04E compressors, the 60-1 seems promising to push you over the edge if you are trying to squeeze every bit of power out of your motor. I know Rob Cadle does not like them at all. He says that they were originally intended for Low Boost, Big Displacement applications.

Unless you are willing to experiment with this T3/60-1 I think you will more than like never exceed the limits of a T3/T04E!

I don't know why anyone would run a 60-1 on a small-displacement high-boost engine. Many of the maps that Turbonetics has on the web site are bogus. However, most of them originally came from Garrett, and if they have not been doctored by Turbonetics, then they are pretty accurate. The map for the 60-1 that is on their website:

http://www.turboneticsinc.com/comp_maps/fig9.html

is an accurate map, but notice that none of the efficiency contours are labeled. That peak efficiency contour is about 74%, and look at how low a boost pressure it peaks at: less than 14 psi. By the time you are running 23-24 psi of boost (2.7 or so pressure ratio), you are in the mid-60's for compressor efficiency PEAK. Low efficiency means more power-robbing detonation producing backpressure and reversion.

The 60-1 does flow a lot. It flows more than the 60 trim T-04E, as Louis said. The T04E flows about 50 lbs/min versus 60 lb/min for the 60-1. However, lets look at what you have to do to flow that much.

An SR20 running 26 psi of boost, turning 7500 RPM with a 120 degree F intake manifold temperture will flow about 50 lbs/minute at 100% volumetric efficiency, which you will not achieve. At the 90% or so VE that is obtainable with headwork, cams, etc, you are talking about 45 lb/min. In order to flow 60 lbs/min you will have to run 39 psi (3.7:1 pressure ratio) at 120 degree F intake manifold temp. Even with an ice water/air charge air cooler, you will have to run 35+ psi of boost to get that kind of air flow into an SR20, at which point you'll be blowing head gaskets left and right unless you do a lot of work.

The only way you'll get that kind of airflow is through revs, and very high VE. To get high VE, you'll have to run in crossover, and that will take very high overall turbocharger efficiency, which you won't get with a 60-1.

I'm not saying it isn't possible to make good power with this turbo. But, you have to get out of the 'follow-the-leader' me-too habit of doing what someone else does just because he turns a fast ET. If the guy running the 60-1 would listen to what I say, his car would be faster. Period.

I don't think that I will rev that high. Rob you have inspired me to go with the t04e other then the 60-1. I will take your word that I will go faster with out the bigger turbo.

Thank Nic

again!!! who is this rob cadle character? i dont think he knows what he's talking about. i say just build it however you want and blow it up and rebuild it again...it so much fun!