I have had several pm's in the last few days regarding people wanting a refund because something came up at the last minute. Here is my feeling on this. If you bought tickets to a sporting event or concert, and could not go to the event, could you get a refund? No, you would try and sell your tickets to someone else or take the hit yourself. It has happened to me on many occasions in my life. It is hard enough getting everone to pay in the first place. With all that being said - no there will not be any refunds.

A "no refunds" policy seems pretty harsh and counter productive with regard to advance ticket sales to other events in the future. IMHO the refund policy for events that will take place "rain or shine" or regardless of how many rooms the host hotel has available, should be dictated by a reasonable cut-off date in order to maximize the potential for advance ticket sales without adversely affecting the organizer's ability to plan the event.

Generally speaking, the "sporting event or concert" refund analogy provided is designed by organizers who are promoting events in venues that have a finite number of tickets available (theaters, arenas, stadiums, etc. ). Strict refund terms eliminate the potential risk of having empty seats they won't be able to fill because of last minute refund requests by scalpers. Since that would never be the case with a SR20 club event, it seems to me that modeling a refund policy after Sid Bernstein, NASCAR or the NFL's refund policy would be a big mistake. If your goal is to sell as many advance tickets as possible and particularly if "it's hard enough getting everyone to pay in the first place" .... then maybe revamping the refund policy for future events would be something worth considering.

This is simple. Don't pay if you don't plan on making it.

It may be inconvinient for you, but do you realize how much money it takes to get these things off the ground. SERCA does not have a $$$ base for these conventions. Are the organizers supposed to pay for everything out of their pocket and pray that everyone that says they would come show up???

Shit, look at how many people flaked out this year. That would all be money that Joe would loose. You want to change the policy, then you plan the next one and you pay for it.

its impossible to plan something like this and fund it all upfront...then expect everyone to come through and pony up. Its easy to see that people flake at the last minute...whether a legitimate excuse exists or they just suck....
you cant expect an organizer to take those kinds of hits.

The concert or sporting event analogy is perfect! Eventhough they have a finite number of available seats, if they dont sell out, you still cant get a refund...

Bottom line is: by registering and paying up you are COMMITTING to the event. If you give someone your word and say youre gonna be there...well, theres no better way of making people stick to that than by making them pay up and have consequences if they try to revoke their commitment....

Stuff like this cant be organized over night nor can it be funded by one person on the "honor" system of everyone else's promised registrations, etc...

This is simple. Don't pay if you don't plan on making it.

It may be inconvinient for you, but do you realize how much money it takes to get these things off the ground. SERCA does not have a $$$ base for these conventions. Are the organizers supposed to pay for everything out of their pocket and pray that everyone that says they would come show up???<<snip>>

You're 100% right and I agree with you. If people don't plan on attending, they shouldn't sign-up .... but I'm pretty sure they don't sign-up if they don't plan on attending already.

<<snip>> sh*t, look at how many people flaked out this year. That would all be money that Joe would loose. You want to change the policy, then you plan the next one and you pay for it.

#1) I think you missed the point of my earlier post. Joe would make MORE money if the stated Refund Policy encouraged more people to sign-up earlier. It would also alleviate the headaches of having to deal with people asking for refunds AFTER the cut-off date. A 30 day out cut-off date for a catered event should be adequate for even the most elaborate function. Coupled with an "Early Sign-Up" discount, it would also encourage people who find it difficult to plan on being someplace certain four months in advance, to go ahead and "bite the bullet". A 30-day refund policy would also completely eliminate problems created by weather related no-show's at outdoor events.

#2) As a former Concert Promoter and QMA Region 3 Director, I've had the opportunity to be instrumentally involved with some pretty big events in the past. Through experience, I've been able to sort out what works and what doesn't work. When I offer some good advice, I very seldom take people seriously when they say "If you don't like the way I'm doing it, then YOU do it!" ... unless they work for me, and then I just say "You're fired". :)

The truth is, I expected more people to be like me. When I say I'm going to do something, I will eventually get it done and if there is a timeline invoved I'll hit it. The thought of a refund policy never entered my thought process untill 5 or 6 days ago when people started asking.

In the future whoever is planning the convention may want to consider this upfront. It just never crossed my mind.

its impossible to plan something like this and fund it all upfront...then expect everyone to come through and pony up. Its easy to see that people flake at the last minute...whether a legitimate excuse exists or they just suck....
you cant expect an organizer to take those kinds of hits.<<snip>>

I agree 100%. The object is to plan a successful Event .... not to go broke planning something that nobody wants to attend.

<<snip>>The concert or sporting event analogy is perfect! Eventhough they have a finite number of available seats, if they dont sell out, you still cant get a refund...<<snip>>
Who can't get a refund? The occasional no-show who doesn't attend because of unforeseen circumstances? If you think that a concert or sporting event promoter with 5,000 to 150,000 tickets to sell gives a second thought about those situations then you might want to think again. Their "NO REFUNDS" policy is directed at scalpers who purchase anywhere from 20 to 200 tickets depending on the size of their operation. The only reason that Bristol Motor Speedway announced that they didn't sell-out early this year, is because of the scalpers .... not the fans. The Cup race still sold-out, but a lot of those scalpers who traditionally used NASCAR as a second income .... didn't have a "first income" to buy a bunch of tickets with this year.

When scalpers start selling tickets to SERCA events ..... THEN you can call it a "perfect analogy". Until then, it's not a good analogy and actually supports rethinking the Refund Policy.

<<snip>>Bottom line is: by registering and paying up you are COMMITTING to the event. If you give someone your word and say youre gonna be there...well, theres no better way of making people stick to that than by making them pay up and have consequences if they try to revoke their commitment....<<snip>>

I respectfully disagree. (my) Bottom line is: there's no better way of making people not pre-register and stay home than by asking them to pay-up months in advance AND announcing to them in the same breath that you will impose dire consequences on those "potential ticket holders" IF they try to revoke their commitment in a reasonable amount of time.

<<snip>>Stuff like this cant be organized over night nor can it be funded by one person on the "honor" system of everyone else's promised registrations, etc...
This was the Top Line .... not the Bottom Line and I still agree 100% .... but it doesn't relate to (my) "Bottom Line" statement.

The truth is, I expected more people to be like me. When I say I'm going to do something, I will eventually get it done and if there is a timeline invoved I'll hit it. The thought of a refund policy never entered my thought process untill 5 or 6 days ago when people started asking.

In the future whoever is planning the convention may want to consider this upfront. It just never crossed my mind.

"Experience is the thing you always get right after you need it." I'm a "newbie" here and it appears to me that you did a fantastic job planning this Convention. My prediction is that if people follow your lead and take your well earned advice, the next convention will have a great foundation to build on and be even more successful.

Congradulations for a job well done. :biggthump

I paid a little over $200, and the night before I was supposed to leave, I started to feel bad. I got up early, and didn't feel any better. I spent all day Thursday sleeping after I helped a friend get his car on the trailer and got him in contact with people to drive down with. Was I bummed I'm out $200? You bet, but that's the way things go.

yup...


I dont know why I even bothered argueing....it is what it is... bottom top and in between....like it or not...deal with it.

My car was loaded up and ready to go until this afternoon. :(

We've all discussed it....and we decided we're only going to hold it over your head for 5 years instead of the standard ten :D

The issue at hand is that (I'm going to go out on a limb here and Joe can confirm) people came to him within a week of the vent wanting to bail en masse. LeftRoamin, as you stated "reasonable amount of time" ... this was certainly not a reasonable amount of time. As stated, a concert event is much different and, if tickets popped up last second because people wanted to bail, the organizer/promoter could jack UP the price and resell those tickets in a heartbeat. For the convention, there would be a double hit. You'd lose the money that you're returning to the deadbeat and you'd have the burden of trying to fill the track slot that you've already paid for, the t-shirts that you've already paid for, the caterer that you've already paid for, etc, etc. You get the point. When I co-organized the event in 2001 and again in 2006 we did have a refund policy which was stated as people registered. There are too many in this community that say "I'm def there" or "me and my boyz from the Bronx will be their rollin 12 deep yo" when the convention is 10 months out but when it comes time to put up or shut up, they are nowhere to be found. The difference is this year those people registered and then got lazy and decided they didn't want to show up and bitched that they couldn't get their money back in a non-reasonable time frame.

Oh and Eric should get his $200 back if he can provide a doctor's note ;)

Oh and Eric should get his $200 back if he can provide a doctor's note ;)

No doctor's note here. :(

There are too many in this community that say "I'm def there" or "me and my boyz from the Bronx will be their rollin 12 deep yo" when the convention is 10 months out but when it comes time to put up or shut up, they are nowhere to be found.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

No doctor's note here. :(

^Sucks you couldn't make it man :(

I paid a little over $200, and the night before I was supposed to leave, I started to feel bad. I got up early, and didn't feel any better. I spent all day Thursday sleeping after I helped a friend get his car on the trailer and got him in contact with people to drive down with. Was I bummed I'm out $200? You bet, but that's the way things go.

Similar thing happened to me last year, paid for a Track day + TT at Poconos, was too sick to go. At least I can take solace in that the money benefited other members and our club overall (CT C.A.R.T. (http://www.cartct.com/index1.shtml)). If I had known a little earlier I could have given it away, but > $200 "donation" it was. I never even thought about asking to transfer it to another date, or ask for a refund, the way we run is you just don't sign up if you don't know you're going, and if something happens, too bad. Otherwise quarter or half our break-even number of cars could cancel out, etc. and we're facing a loss - who pays for that?

It sounds harsh but it's pretty standard for events where there are large fixed costs that are only covered by getting to a certain number of people. Otherwise the organizer has to cover that money somewhere, and believe me, anything with the word "TRACK" in it and/or "FOOD" it's really hard to break even. Usually you break even by your sponsors or buddying up to share costs with another org.

My mother worked in event promotion for 30-35 years in Portland, OR. Some years things like a Champ Car race, or IMSA GT was a success measured on how small the loss was, or how close the costs were covered by the "gate" - but the company she was with promoted a lot of events knowing they would lose money some years and make it up on other events, otherwise they get written off that series' calendar for good.