Any idea why the B13 Se-r was moved from 2469 lbs to 2520 lbs?

on the NASA forums is a thread from about 2 months ago you might want to read.

Responded. BS, IMO. Our SE-Rs here in PTD get YANKED on every straight by those same RX-8s the B15 Spec V was pulling on.

people just love to bitch I guess :(

Yep. No clue why SR20 powered cars got lumped into this. Thankfully, the G20 remained untouched... :D

yeah, we are seriously considering caging our p10 at this point to run in PTE with it... lol

Here's what I think happened....

1) A PTE B15 SER passed the national PT director on a straightaway at the 2009 nationals.

2) The national PT director was driving a PTD RX8 and didn't like it but when the SER was put on the dyno, he was found legal by wt/hp ratio.

3) The director remembered that when the SER was initially classed, that a star was removed from the base class after lobbying from Mike Kojima.

4) The director, who didn't like the straightaway speed of the b15, decided that it was time to add back that star to the B15. BUT he couldn't do it logically without hitting all of the SER's with it.

5) So, the director decided to give the "star" back to the SER with weight.

It came out yesterday that the director was pissed at the B15 guy for running away from him in the straights and "holding him up" in the corners.

To me, that's the only explanation. There are no results nationally to dictate that the SER should be given any sort of rewards weight.

Any idea why the B13 Se-r was moved from 2469 lbs to 2520 lbs?

Because they want you guys to come to the SCCA.

:rofl:

Ah I see, too much perceived Nissan Ownage. From the racing that has been taking place in the MID Atl region the B13 guys don't seem to have super ownage going on. From the videos I've seen the racing is close.

I agree with a comment made on NASA forums about removing weight from non competitive cars if adjustments need to be made. A miata or a honda though are going to handle way better than the B13's, theoretically if the power to weight ratio is maintained the mazda or hondas would have an edge in most situations because of the better suspension design and lighter weight.

It came out yesterday that the director was pissed at the B15 guy for running away from him in the straights and "holding him up" in the corners.

Yep. Which is inexcusable, IMO. This is doubly true because our PTD G20 and Derrick's SE-R (which both probably have a higher power:weight than any of the MA guys) had the same experience with RX-8s running away from us. Oh the sweet irony.

This is racing with different cars. If you want it to purely be driver against driver, rent random karts at the local gokart track. Some cars will be faster on the straights and slower through the corners <cough> Scion! <cough>, and others will be the opposite. Get over it.

...heck, even spec miata isn't 100% equal any more with people dumping $30k into motors that are 'barely legal'... or the irony behind nationals with the top 8 finishing spec miata's all being illegal...

whatever happened to pure 'driver against driver' anyway? ..oh yeah, too many egos with too much money :(

...heck, even spec miata isn't 100% equal any more with people dumping $30k into motors that are 'barely legal'... or the irony behind nationals with the top 8 finishing spec miata's all being illegal...

whatever happened to pure 'driver against driver' anyway? ..oh yeah, too many egos with too much money :(

Yep. Which is why I suggested renting gokarts... :D

I'm not an active NASA racer but I plan to be and I do want to run a NX. I think this issue should not be dropped. However I do not feel I'm in a position to ask for changes on the new changes. I think only active racers should really have a say.

I think the B13 guys can make a strong case that they are not owning the other participants. You can do this with Lap time data, dyno sheets, and a parts list for what modifications have been made to the car.

I mean power can be made on the cars to get close to the minimum power to weight ratio but as the saying goes lighter is better. If the changes have no hope of being reversed then I guess the B13 guys will have to make sure to place the extra weight properly. Maybe a better Front to Rear balance can be reached.

While this is being discussed, I think the fact that 93-96 P10's are classed very heavy should be brought up. The p10 at 2800 pounds does not sound right at all.

While this is being discussed, I think the fact that 93-96 P10's are classed very heavy should be brought up. The p10 at 2800 pounds does not sound right at all.

I petitioned this as the original ruleset had ALL P10s classed as 2800lbs. Eventually, I was able to convince Greg that the 91-92 G20s were this light, but not the rest. Good luck with that. What got him was that the car weighed 2430lbs with a half tank of fuel and me in it. I asked him if he's ever seen a car that didn't come with leather, power seats, sunroof, etc lose 400lbs with only a CF hood and a stripped interior AND have a cage and driver sitting in it (~250lbs right there).

so that's why the 91/92 g20 is classified different.. I thought it had to do with the cam difference and lack of airbags in 91/92 years.. although the airbags didn't add THAT much weight.. lol

There is no SER ownage anywhere in the country. We have 4 fast SER's in the MA region but a 2.5l probe won 14 straight races across 2 different seasons. Then a Teg spent a ton of money on his car and dusted Todd in the only race that he participated in. When all of the Honda Challenge cars filter back to PT and people start developing V6 and larger displacement cars for the tourque, it's going to turn out the the SER is an underdog. That's why it's sad that they are adding weight to us. It's additionally sad because part of the reason we are getting the weight is because of the straight line speed of a B15.

I would never have built a Sentra for PT. I built mine for SER cup but it got rolled into PT before the season started.

Oh well.

and the bottom line is because of a ROTARY car along with the 'ego' of that driver is what it comes down to...

kbrew8991 had an excellent point on there:

when you give Joe's Sentra a hp/weight break for front wheel drive, and another for 4 doors, why are we surprised it has a bit more straight-line talent than a car that doesn't get those breaks?

I'm not bent out of shape about the weight as much as am the way the decision to add it came out of the blue. The only explanation I can get is that it was a "classing error" that they decided to fix after all these years. It feels completely arbitrary to me. I stand by my theory as posted above.

Wade and I were talking about this and he feels that the whole thing is very "honda challengesque". In other words, someone is monkeying around with something that doesn't need fixing and making it worse in the process.