What is the big deal with this particular upgrade? Is it that much better than the stock set-up? I need a complete(read http://laf.cioe.com/~benbobbo/NonCGI/tongue.gifads and rotors) brake job, and would lOVE something that's better than stock. How much did this cost and where can I get the parts?

its worth it if you need a brake job. i needed(I thought) my calps rebuilt or replaced. while im pretty confident, brakes is something i didnt want to screw up. so i was probaly going to get a new set cause i dont take my car to a mechanic anymore if i can do it myself. so going for the upgrade was really no extra cost to me. what you do get is a rotor that is less likely to warp and the ability to modulate your brakes a little more. pedal feel about the same i would say. it takes less pedal travel to stop ***. ben drove my car he might be able to compare them to non ad22vf's or eric. but you dont really notice them that much. espcialy with the nissan pads. they feel stock just seem to stop a little better. i can really haul my butt down with confidence now...no fade and hella clamping. i want the smc lines to help firm up the pedal a bit but thats down the road probaly. with a good set of pads i bet they would feel a lot different and more like performance brakes. but i didnt want a harsh brake since i dont race at all really with the automatic. maybe my stockers were in such bad dismay that these just shine ever so much more. they STOP right now if you put the pedal down. gota watch for lock a little more if you go more than half way down i say. but near the top they got plenty of bite to stop way early. i still find myself stoping before the lines at redlights. with constant even pressure i stop too early. if i dont let up a little i will end up stoping 10 feet back or so from the line from where i feel confortable to start putting the brakes on. maybe i drive too much like a granny ***. but they will stop. dont expect video game brakes like i was thinking i would get with instant on off. but if you got to replace your rotors or rebuild your calps i would definatly look at doing the upgrade.

fitting under the stock rims is a pain but can be done. first one always the hardest but a little time with a bench grinder will take care of it. i would seriously alow a full day almost 10 to 5 to do them thats what it did with me...but i had to drive to the bench grinder each time which took all the time. other than that its a straight bolt on. if you have b14 or aftermarket rims you shouldnt have to worrie about it at all...well maybe the spare might not fit over the calps dont know ***.

as for prices. pretty cheap. rotors are usualy around 45 to 50 bucks a piece, the same as stock units just about. then claps(2) with hardware kit, pads, torque member everything, should run right around 130 to 150 bucks i would say. thats without the usualy 65 to 80 dollar core charge per side. so with fluid pads everything i would say close to 300 bucks and do the work yourself. calps i would call the local places around your house to see what they have its easier on the core charge that way (some say thats wrong but oh well...ive been heading to hell long before this). rotors probaly cheaper to go though courtsey and get the discount. calps probaly not a good idea to go though them http://laf.cioe.com/~benbobbo/NonCGI/biggrin.gif they may look for us doing the old swapper on them just being careful. i got mine though jez when he worked at a nissan. i like the stock nissan pads but i dont race so guess it doesnt matter much. fluid...i use vavloline syntec from walmart. like 4 or 5 bucks for a quart. good stuff. close, same, or higher boiling point as Motul 600 i checked bens bottle when we were putting that in his car. i dont race so its worked great. feels good, cheap, and can flush the system like a bitch. i pushed almost a full quart though it alone when i changed the fluid when i did the swap. and being so cheap i will probaly end up changing it every year or so. like hassinger says about the cheap plugs, for that price i will change them often and keep it running like new all the time. i couldnt justify the price of motul or ford on my luxo cruiser as we call it now. but im bout ready to take it awy from the luxury car tired of being made fun of cause of my stock shit. screw the idea autos are slower i dont care http://laf.cioe.com/~benbobbo/NonCGI/biggrin.gif

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Thats my opinion and I could be wrong

93 classic
Aztec Red, Automatic, POP, STB, OEC battery tie down, AD22VF's, Pirelli P4000's

http://gemini.tntech.edu/~kjh6703/ser.jpg

Bowlcut-First of all, we have almost the same exact car(year, color, etc) which is weird http://laf.cioe.com/~benbobbo/NonCGI/smile.gif You had to grind down the pads to fit? i'm taking my car to a small garage here in the city that specializes in Drag Racing(granted, it's usually V-8's), but I figure the less headache, the better for whatever labor's gonna be(I don't f**k around with my brake system). I sthere any Online store that carries even stock replacements for cheap(I don't race, so it's really not a big deal-I just hate having to step on a "sponge" every time I stop)Do you have (had) problems with your emissions system? I tried spraying out my throttle body, and I'm pretty sure I gummed everything up pretty well(i.e. catalytic, EGR, etc.). Any place that you know of that sells cheap(bolt-on)catalytic converters?

Chris, you don't grind the pads, you have to grind the calpiers themselves in order to fit the stock 5.5" SE-R rims.

Also, you must, must, must use the NX2000 rotors with those calpiers. If you use the stock rotors, you will push the piston out of the caliper. You will then only stop whenever you hit something hard.

Bowlcut, what magic word do I need to say to the guys at Courtesy to get the $45 price on rotors. They quoted me $55.

Matt

Chris, if you are steping on a sponge when you use the brakes, replace the pads then replace all the brake fluid. In my '91, the brakes felt good, but the fluid looked like really bad coffee. I replaced the fluid by bleeding the brakes starting at the farthest caliper from the MC and working my way closer. The peddle would go to the floor. The next weekend, I bled the brakes using the FSM order, and the peddle feels like it is welded up. I mean rock solid. No AD22VFs on this car. I can almost do indos with car is feels like. The car has cheap ass $12 pads on the rear and who knows how old or what kind of pads on the front, and with rubber lines. The peedle feels better in the '91 than in my '96. If you don't race, then get new pads and maybe rotors if needed and bleed the brakes. DOn't spend the money unless you have to.

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Eric Waterman
1996 200SX SE-R
1997 200SX SE-R
1991 Sentra SE-R
http://www.mindspring.com/~novtec/VTEC_sig.jpg (http://www.mindspring.com/~novtec)

Chris you were also asking about the emission stuff. The best way to clean the TB is to take it off the car. This is a pain, but you can make sure it is sparkilng clean this way. Make sure you have a new gasket before you do this. I learned the hard way and the car would hardly idle. I trip to AutoZone and I found a 4"x4" sqaure of gasket material, traced the TB and I had a TB gasket for $.79. Nissan sells theirs for $5. You can pick up a universal bolt on cat from AutoZone for about $125.

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Eric Waterman
1996 200SX SE-R
1997 200SX SE-R
1991 Sentra SE-R
http://www.mindspring.com/~novtec/VTEC_sig.jpg (http://www.mindspring.com/~novtec)

yea if you are having someone else do the upgrade its probaly not very cost effective. and if you are just looking for stiffer brakes i wouldnt do it. my pedal really isnt that stiff. its firm but nothing crazy. i like the feeling of my peddal ***. but if you are wanting an upgrade and never really race or do the work yourself grab some braided brake lines, and a good set of pads. i like the nissan pads and got the wagner pads from advanced in the back. ben put them on his fronts they arent bad. for like 15 bucks for the rear and like 30 i think for the front not sure on that one they arent bad. bed them good and they will work great. but i would suggest doing lines, good fluid change, new rotors maybe, and a good bleeding. i wouldnt be scared of doing the upgrade if i were you its not hard. it was the first time i ever worked on brakes and i managed. only really 4 bolts per side(on and off). if you do want to get them and have the shop put them on make sure they realize they have to grind them and what all is involved. dont want some redneck screwing things up.

as for prices...im not 100% on those prices. 50 or 55 isnt bad...i paid 45 or 50 i think got it around here somewhere for the rotors from jez but thats with his employee discount thats probaly why they were like 10% cheaper or so. atleast i think thats why. but call around there are probaly other places. just ask for a parts for a 92 or 93 non abs nx2000

oh no i never had much trouble out of my emmmsions sysmte. gota clean the egr a little more this semester. shes bucking like before. think its close to time to buy a new egr valve and clean that pipe well...probaly my valve is getting old. but i did clean the tube once on the egr a little carb cleaner didnt go crazy on it and a wire like se-r.net says. i cleaned my TB last spring it was really clean. not much gunk built up on it for some reason. but i just took a carb cleaner soaked paper towel and whiped everything down and took a tooth brush to it also. but it came pretty clean dont think i need to take it off

The mechanic that is doing this job and I talked about what is neccessary, and we both came to the same conclusion as most of you....I'm going to have the rotors turned, new pads, and have the system bled(and yes, it DOES look like coffee, doesn't it?) As far as the TB, I wish I had your advice earlier...I've REALLY cruded up the Cat. and now I have to try and find a cheap bolt on(I don't weld, and most shops around here want an arma nd a leg for their services)Catalytic. Hmmm...I wonder if I can get a Random Tech. cat. on a group buy http://laf.cioe.com/~benbobbo/NonCGI/biggrin.gif?

Doh!! Kevin the non ABS NXs had the same brakes as all the SE-Rs. If you want the AD22 rotors, tell them a '91 NX2000 WITH ABS. PepBoys shows a Japan model and a US model. I think the Japan model had the bigger ones, since the NX was made there. There is no US made NX. If this is wrong, I'll gladly take my banana and go sit by myself.

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Eric Waterman
1996 200SX SE-R
1997 200SX SE-R
1991 Sentra SE-R
http://www.mindspring.com/~novtec/VTEC_sig.jpg (http://www.mindspring.com/~novtec)

[This message has been edited by NoVTECSER (edited 01-05-2001).]

NoVTECSER: Doh!! Kevin the non ABS NXs had the same brakes as all the SE-Rs. If you want the AD22 rotors, tell them a '91 NX2000 WITH ABS. PepBoys shows a Japan model and a US model. I think the Japan model had the bigger ones, since the NX was made there. There is no US made NX. If this is wrong, I'll gladly take my banana and go sit by myself.

eric...ummm my nx is a jap made one without abs, and i have the AD22VF setup on it from the factory.

so go get that bananna.

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1993 NX2000
with stuff.

45 bux is cost on em'. I don't think we sell em' that low. http://laf.cioe.com/~benbobbo/NonCGI/biggrin.gif 55 bux is the correct amount with the se-r discount

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98 se-r w/ p/r cai, stillen header, courtesy exhaust, JUN flywheel, ACT clutch, NOS nitrous kit, eibach springs, kyb struts, st sways, cusco camber plates, f/r strut braces, lotsa bushings, and a bunch of other crap not really worth mentioning

I'm not taking my banana without a fight. Not all the NXs have the AD22VF brakes. To almost guarantee that you will get the AD22 brakes, ask for a '91 NX2000 with ABS. According to my '92 FSM, the AD22VF brakes were part of an optional sports package. SO, some NXs have them, some don't. So Kevin was right and so was I. So I guess I get a half a banana, right? http://laf.cioe.com/~benbobbo/NonCGI/tongue.gif

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Eric Waterman
1996 200SX SE-R
1997 200SX SE-R
1991 Sentra SE-R
http://www.mindspring.com/~novtec/VTEC_sig.jpg (http://www.mindspring.com/~novtec)

BTW, almost forgot.....I had no clue that the NX2000 shared some parts with the SE-R. I was on Ebay months ago, and someone was selling the entire NX2000 brake set-up from the pads to the rotors and calipers for like, 25$ and it was still in the wrapping!!!! I think it ended up selling for 85$ finally.....S**T! http://laf.cioe.com/~benbobbo/NonCGI/tongue.gif

hmmmmmm you sure about that eric? guess i will go check.... im almost sure all the nx had larger brakes, the ad22vf's up front. there are a few that got slightly larger rear brakes ***. or i could be totaly wrong on that one. pretty sure almost all nx had the ad22vf's up front. ok now im confused. brain hurts...must stop...must shower...

as for turning the rotors i would recomend not doing that. the stock rotors are pretty thin things and turning them takes them thinner. after i had mine turned, within like 6months i warped the rotors. dont know if that happens to everyone but those rotors are THIN compaired to other rotors and espcialy the ad22vf's.

So Bowlcut, what would you recommend to someone on a TIGHT budget? The reason I figured I'd get the rotors turned is to save some $ until the summer when I could upgrade the system completely. It seems as though it's more the pads that need replacing above everything else...

if you are going to think about doing the upgrade then have the rotors turned. i warped mine in like 6 to 8 months. but that doesnt mean you will. one thing automatics are harder on brakes, my dads truck went 11 years on stock rear drums 150k and only one set on the front. if you know how to drive you dont go though brakes. on a tight budget get the rotors turned, and get some advanced pads. turning about 7 bucks a rotor(in cookeville dont know about other places) and like probaly 30 for pads(ben knows the pad prices i think), rear pads 15 bucks. grease up your pins real good and put vavoline syntec fluid though the system clean out the fluid real well. the brake lines can wait or you can go ahead now if you feel you want to upgrade something. they will work with both sets of calps so it doesnt matter when you get them. but for probaly under 100 bucks total with labor you probaly could get new pads all around, rotors turned if needed, and new fluid, i would guess. lines are like 150 bucks i think from SMC.

one reason i had to rebuild/replace my calps were because my dust boots on the pins were GONE. so i had to do something, the calp was probaly rubbing on the rotor(not fully releasing and sliding well) that probaly led to my warped rotors.

if you are going to do nothing but replace the pads and turn the rotors do the work yourself dude. its real easy, hell you can do it with a haynes i did. i was a bit worried at first too. its two bolts to loosen and remove then the calp comes off, pads clip in place, hardware kit pretty easy to figure out i did it without looking at anything, rotors come off easily. usualy just fall off. get in another car run them to a machine shop/mechanics shop that turns rotors they usualy will do it for like 7 bucks. then slide them back on, clip in the pads, slide calp over them, grease up the pins real good lithum grease good, slide them in, tighten down. i did mine just to arm tight then months later removed pins to regrease then and have eric put them on with the torque wrench. but just a good grunt or two is about as tight as they need to be. fluid is easy. get a bleeder kit, main thing you want is the clear tubing...so if you got some clear tubing that will go over the bleeder valve you dont have to buy anything. grab an empty 2 liter bottle...put the tube on the bleeder, and in the two liter. crack open the bleeder, boxed in will work but a flair nut wrench is better it wont strip it. open up the valve and have a friend pump. check fluid leven in mc...keep it sorta up. i like to take a turkey baster and suck out the old fluid and pour in clean to start with. keep pumping till the fluid is almost clear coming out of the calp. more will come out when you bleed it later. move to each corner doing this. i used almost a full quart of valvoline doing this. helps to jack the car up at each corner and put the whole thing on jack stands and take off the wheels just makes it alot easier. bleeding them is a little different. pump the brakes, hold, crack open the valve, let the bubbles come out, close it before the pedal hits the floor or close. dont let the pedal hit the floor ***, heard that can damage the MC not sure ***. eric did mine quicker than i did and they felt better to...guess my redneck way doesnt work well. oh well. theres some tips

I do have the brake up grade w/abs I just used the 91 NX calipers got steel braded lines , power stop cross drilled rotors.my stoping distance was cut way down...and abs still works fine (don't forget to cut off your dust sheild while you have the rotors off

heheheh cross drilled rotors.....

but that dust shield sorta...i left mine on. you can do that. just have to bend the lip flat. take a pair of side cutters or tin snips and cut the connecting part of the drain hole...and a couple other slits around the edges. then grab a couple pair of pliers and straighten it out. wish i had a pair of turning pliers when i did it(worked sheet metal ducks for 2 summers you learn the right tools help). but thats about all. then when you mount the calp you will have to push the top of the dust shield back about 1/2" or so. i left mine on there cause i go though lots of gravel driveways and roads.

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Thats my opinion and I could be wrong

93 classic
Aztec Red, Automatic, POP, STB, OEC battery tie down, AD22VF's, Pirelli P4000's

http://gemini.tntech.edu/~kjh6703/ser.jpg

Hey Thanks for the Info!!! However, up here in the fridgid North(massachusetts)it would be nice if I had a place to do all this work in(apartments are fun http://laf.cioe.com/~benbobbo/NonCGI/smile.gif. I have a small racing/gearhead shop right behind the place I work. The mechanic is very reasonable, and the best part is:He'll do servicing with YOUR parts-Most places make $ on the parts, so they don't even bother. The fact I only have to walk about 100' or so to go to work is just another perk http://laf.cioe.com/~benbobbo/NonCGI/smile.gif I really do not like goofing around with my braking system...