I was reading in another thread that the gentleman spent near $4000 on a ve swap in a classic. My question is wouldn't a det swap cost about the same or less than $4000? I already have the clutch, flywheel , what would be cheaper, ve or det? The swap will probably be done this summer so i am trying to make a decision. I did a search on this topic and found nothing. Help would be appreciated:D

A VE is going to cost the price of the engine ($1500-$2500) plus the Cam Triggers ($150 at the most). That is it for a basic install. You can add headers, cams, Ecu, exhaust, etc. None of that is required. Potenially a VE is cheaper. Most of those add ons could also apply to a DET install. THis is one of those questions you are going to need to answer for yourself. Make a list and add it up.

Steve,
Is the JWT modded ECU not required? I know some use the VE ECU, but will the stock DE ECU work with the VE? Maybe it just doesn't work as well. . .

Thanks,
Ben
92 SE-R

Originally posted by frkpwr
Is the JWT modded ECU not required? I know some use the VE ECU, but will the stock DE ECU work with the VE?

If you elect to use the stock DE ECU you should use the DE injectors and DE MAF.

When JWT programs your ECU for the VE they're only interested in what size injectors and MAF you're running. That being said you could run the VE injectors... I think the ECU should be smart enough with feedback from the O2 sensor that it'd be okay cruising although you might run rich at WOT (<speculate>which you might be able to tune out with a FPR and a few dyno runs</speculate>).

Steve

Originally posted by autoxer7
If you elect to use the stock DE ECU you should use the DE injectors and DE MAF.

When JWT programs your ECU for the VE they're only interested in what size injectors and MAF you're running. That being said you could run the VE injectors... I think the ECU should be smart enough with feedback from the O2 sensor that it'd be okay cruising although you might run rich at WOT (<speculate>which you might be able to tune out with a FPR and a few dyno runs</speculate>).


I'm currently running a stock DE ECU with DE MAF and VE injectors. I was afraid of a couple things. I didn't want to damage a 314cc injector while swapping injectors on and off of the VE rail (I'm sure a replacement would be fun to find). Running lean up top with the 259cc injectors was actually my largest concern though. I knew the 314 injectors would be too rich, but i'd rather run rich than lean, especially up top.

My DE ECU is adjusted all the way lean right now too. If you plug a consult in you can check it, I believe it's A/F Alpha on the consult. If this is the wrong thing to look at someone please correct me. When i'd reset the ECU it'd go to 100%, then slowly drop to about 80%. Other cars i've plugged the consult into have varied, some were above 100%. I know the ECU can adjust for injector size differences, but i don't know exactly how much, I've heard about 20%? Anyone know off hand?

I've thought about an adjustable FPR on my current setup as well, but i didn't want to spend all that time on the dyno tuning it, when i'll have my JWT ECU back anytime and then have to hit the dyno again once i get that. I also need the JWT ECU to get rid of my MIL light and pass emissions too (EGR code).

Originally posted by JustinP10
I'm currently running a stock DE ECU with DE MAF and VE injectors. I was afraid of a couple things. I didn't want to damage a 314cc injector while swapping injectors on and off of the VE rail (I'm sure a replacement would be fun to find). Running lean up top with the 259cc injectors was actually my largest concern though. I knew the 314 injectors would be too rich, but i'd rather run rich than lean, especially up top.

My DE ECU is adjusted all the way lean right now too. If you plug a consult in you can check it, I believe it's A/F Alpha on the consult. If this is the wrong thing to look at someone please correct me. When i'd reset the ECU it'd go to 100%, then slowly drop to about 80%. Other cars i've plugged the consult into have varied, some were above 100%. I know the ECU can adjust for injector size differences, but i don't know exactly how much, I've heard about 20%? Anyone know off hand?

I've thought about an adjustable FPR on my current setup as well, but i didn't want to spend all that time on the dyno tuning it, when i'll have my JWT ECU back anytime and then have to hit the dyno again once i get that. I also need the JWT ECU to get rid of my MIL light and pass emissions too (EGR code).

Bigtom ran the DE ECU and INJ and MAf for a while before swithching over to the VE combo. It did not run lean up top with the stock VE. Of course everyone should really spend the money on one good dyno session to tune the car.

Personally, I like the idea of running a VE MAF sensor with DE injectors at 4b of fuel rail pressure and a stock VE ECU. If/when I get my VE head, this will most likely be the route I travel because of the headache of my B15's wiring harness and ECU. If I just get an SR16VE, swap heads, and use the VE's harness, sensors, and ECU, this is the path of least resistance.

Something fundamentally bothers me about the idea of having a 54mm MAF sensor and a 60mm throttle body, but that's just me, so even if I had a JWT ECU, I'd want a Maxima MAF or something just to make myself happy. I dont' suppose it really matters much to anyone else, and that's okay. :D

An adjustable fuel pressure regulator is a lot of expense for such an otherwise "budget-conscious" setup, but consider the tuning possibilities. Stock VE injectors are 310cc/m? Running the DE (259cc/m) injectors at 58 PSI instead of 43 puts them right about 300cc/m, so you're in the right neighborhood for fuel flow. Since any decent AFPR should be able to range far beyond 58 PSI, you could even go higher if you feel the need to. My point is this...

When you do get around to spending some time on the dyno with a wideband O2 sensor, having a base rail pressure of 4b means that you have a much higher degree of precision with which to affect changes than you would with 3b of rail pressure. If the O2 sensor readings are 4% off of where you'd like to be, you can make finer adjustments to the AFPR to get to your target A:F/R. Can anyone help me put this into plainer words? I know I'm not wrong, I'm just having a hard time getting my point across. :confused:

It really doesnt make sense to not run the VE injectors if you are running the VE ecu. Sure your idea can work but it has no real advantages (to my knowledge). Tuning at 3bar is not going to be an issue at all (at least from my experiance).

Ohohoh! I found an advantage; replacing one 259cc/m injector because it failed costs less than replacing one 310cc/m injector. :D

Seriously, I've heard of guys with B15s and P11s tuning their cars (N/A) with an AFPR, and to get the mixes right, had to dial down to 35-ish PSI. That makes me very uncomfortable, even though it does work. See, if the ECU gets a 310cc/m injector to go static at 35 PSI, it's only flowing about 279cc/m. Going the other way 'round, a 259cc/m injector would only have to be running at 49 PSI to flow the same volume of fuel. The baby is only about 13% out of spec (and risking premature wear) versus the big injector being about 19% out of spec (and sputtering like it's dirty).

Guys, y'all know very well that I'm just a monkey with a keyboard, and there are several of you that have actually done the swaps, done the tuning, and speak from experience, and I respect you all the more for it. It'd sure be fun to try my way once, though, wouldn't it? ;)