I am bored and at work. I was just just thinking about this. Why is there no other option besides JWT? I know there isn't a huge aftermarket support for Nissan but is it that hard for another company to have the means to do this? I just hate the fact that it costs $600 and they are such a monopoly when is comes to ECU reprogramming for us.

Well, you can do the greddy emanage, or get a BB ECU and use a safc or emanage on that. I think JWT has a niche market cause they know how the NIssan ECU's work and they choose to program each one individually. An option they have is put all the programs on there and use dip switches and that has become popular. But to answer your question, I think it is the fact that they know how the ecu is programmed.

BRent

JUN makes the best ECU for the sr20, of course they tune it for the car it's 1000 for the ecu and it's 32 bit as opposed to 16 bit.

Originally posted by PSSSHHHGOESMYSR20
JUN makes the best ECU for the sr20, of course they tune it for the car it's 1000 for the ecu and it's 32 bit as opposed to 16 bit.

Its like having a Super Nintendo vs. a regular Nintendo :D

Originally posted by Fast91SER
Its like having a Super Nintendo vs. a regular Nintendo :D

actually super nintendo is 16 bit and nintendo is 8 bit, its REALLY like sega saturn vs sega genesis. ;) ok i need to get a life..

If you want the best go JUN!

Actually, a company called G-Force makes an ECU for the SR20 powered cars, and I've heard some decent things about it - but have never seen a dyno chart or talked to anyone, personally, that has it. I don't know the website....anyone?

do a search on that G-Force they are out of canada i think and they were doing come cool things for cheap and showing how JWT did what they did for hundreds less.

O

The g-force that was making ecus is out of business.

You can still see the google cache of their page here (although probably not for too much longer):

http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:Hnr3l8-pU1EC:www.gforceengineering.com/home.html+gforceengineering&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

well, I guess that about says it all for G-Force..........lol, looks like the JWT is the best deal in town, compared to Jun.

Another way at looking at this, is atleast you have a choice.

Another way at looking at this, is atleast you have a choice

That is true. I just wish there was more than one. For an example: The local phone company in SLC is Qwest. Now that companies like mine (Eschelon Telecomm) XO,AT&T,SBC are coming around and giving great service with more options at the same price as Qwest they have had to do the same thing. I know JWT does good work but DAMN. Why can't they help out a newly divorced,se-r loving,broke ass guy like me? $600 is just too much right now. I bought a SAFC for $150 and just have it set at -20% across the board.

Originally posted by matt1sd
actually super nintendo is 16 bit and nintendo is 8 bit, its REALLY like sega saturn vs sega genesis. ;) ok i need to get a life..

Goes to show how much I know :p

The G-Force ECU is still available. I actually met the owner about 5 years ago. His name is Tadashi. I am still able to get the ECUS. They do all the same parameters that the JWT ECU does. When I had one in my built up 1991 the G-force actually did make more power and Torque than the JWT one. They are actually great ECU. If you look back at the great cam test in SCC the cars that had tomei cams had ECU's reprogrammed from G-Force. They use to be with UPRD befor they left and went back to Japan. I will contact him and see how much they go for. They were actually around the same price +/- about $50. I will find out some more. If interested please email me. Thanks!!

that and there is no more JUN USA, it is being disbanded right now because JUN JP can't pull their heads out of their a$$es, we were a distributor for them, and I tried calling on some stuff a few weeks ago, and BAM!!!!! nothing, so whatever you get, you will either have to order from someone who gets it imported in, or directly from Japan, either way, you are taking a chance by ordering something from overseas that could possibly be wrong (ie wrong injector size, ect, ect)

I was also a dealer with them at the shop I ran. I am dealing with them now in Japan and can get product (trying to actually get flywheel fo my personal car) but the big pain is getting the money wired over to them. They use an odd bank and no banks around here can do it because they need a corrosponding bank here in the US that JUN has used before. I will keep you guys posted . Hopefully we can get JUN products again!!

G-force does not have half the capability that JWT does, and they don't even have a turbo ECU. Gforce does not have the whole ROM figured out. (from what I've been told) They likely have access to the fuel and timing maps, but as I understand it, they don't know where a lot of the other small stuff is. i.e. you can have JWT remove aiv, egr, etc, as well as any other tweak you can think of. From what I know, Gforce can only really tweak fuel and spark, which basically limits them to doing NA programs. I think at 600 dollars the JWT ecu is really still a great value, if you thing about exactly what you are getting. Many people will cite things like the hondata, but it is simply an issue of economies of scale. I still have a hard time getting past the people who complain how much the JWT computer costs, relative to the whole cost of a turbo kit. An afc (200?) and something to read the less-than-perfect O2 sensor (turbo timer, 100?) and you are half way to the cost of a plug and play computer that makes your huge turbo car drive like stock. If you look at the total cost of your average setup, you are saving maybe 10% off the bottom line. I'd have to ask myself if it is really worth the savings? That 10% figure drops even more if you actually get the car on the dyno (you should) .. I'll say one thing; I've never seen any back to back dynos of two cars in similar states of tune with the same size turbo with any engine management other than JWT. I obviously don't have direct experience with any other option. However, most of the people who champion the JWT alternatives never seem to make it to the dyno and return charts with an AF graph plotted, or even power graphs . (i've seen maybe 1 ?) I wish that people who complain would step up and show that something is better. I don't mean one car with a higher dyno number on 370s than some other random JWT car; I mean a significant sample of cars running alternate solutions that can repeatably produce good smooth power and still get 30 mpg... Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but I've personally seen probably 30 or 40 dyno runs of all manner of JWT-equipped car from basic BB setups to Shaggy's 497hp beast, and I've never been disappointed with what I see. When you have seen so many turbo cars running great right out of the box like I have, you start to wonder what exactly all these people are complaining about? I really truly applaud the people who try other things like AFCs; I REALLY like that people are doing something diffrent and seem to be getting decent results and are happy with it. I congratulate you. Hell, I have a JWT car and occasionally toy with the idea of switching to a Motec or something just for the learning experience. No harm there. The people I don't understand are the whiners. Why complain? They have a good product at a fair (IMO) price for what you get and it's capabilities. They offer a reasonable and logical upgrade path (100 bucks for anything you want), and the product performs well. All the time, I see "fuck JWT, they rape you up the ass for their product. I'm gonna run an AFC, ITC, Rebic, etc.. and show those fools what's up. JUN kicks ass, they are way better than JWT. " Most of the time you never see shit from these people . If something works, I'm more than open. Show me. I'll believe facts, numbers, dynos, etc. I don't for a moment believe the people who talk a bunch of shit and say how their car feels great on the butt dyno, and how their car beat a JWT car in a street race, so their solution must be better, or even equivalent. That is bullshit to me. Complaining about the price is bullshit too. This is a free-market capitalist society. If you don't like something or the price, DON'T BUY IT. It is simple economics and supply/demand. Start a competing company, learn everything they have learned, spend all the R&D money they spend, then come back and sell a competing product for less. That is how a capitalist society works. Also, people always say.. "JWT has a monopoly on the market, so fuck them." This is assinine. JWT does not control the whole market, they don't do anything to stifle competition, they don't have secret agreements with anyone. JWT got where they are by being the best. Period. They don't buy up their competitors or anything; Hell, Clark has even gone and helped the JUN guys with a project or two in the past; Is that monopolistic, market-controlling behavior ? Don't think so.

SR20RACER, this isn't a flame to you; I like that you are happy with your non-JWT management, and I am happy that people are trying other stuff. My only beef is with people who slam JWT or bitch about the price. JWT deserves neither.

respectfully,
andris

^that^is ^a^sweet^post.

^mos def.^

Hey andris, nice post, the other thing you missed about complaints about JWT wasn't neccesarily their price (which is a bit high I think, but not too bad, I could do it) but it's their turn around time. I mean I've heard of them taking months to do the work and I think that's a bit much, but maybe they got better now.

I love my SAFC equiped car, it's been driving for over 6 months now on the stock DE ECU and TMIC with no problems (really) at all, my car starts and idle fine every time with no problems, my gas milage in my eyes is decent because I drive my car very hard all the time and I see 22mpg all city driving no highway at all. I get no check engine lights because I did it right and by that I mean I satisfied the EGR/AIV solenoids and EGT sensor (California).