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We've talked about it here off and on so I figured I'd dedicate a thread to the subject. A few months ago, I sent a letter to the SEB to try and get the B13 SE-R and NX2000 on the same line in the listing for Street Prepared. If this happens, this means we could interchange parts (front brakes, radiator ... any other odds and ends that might be different between them). I figured this was really similar to cars that are already on the same line for SP that look really different on the outside but are essentially the same underneath (like how the Camaros and Firebirds are already listed).
Right now with the E36 BMWs and Lexus IS300s dominating the class, it may not seem like a big deal. But all future listings of the cars would still be on the same line. Say, maybe they get bumped down to FSP or a new SP class is invented for porky, overweight FWD cars that aren't competitive anywhere else.
Once submitted, this first has to get approval from the Street Prepared Advisory Committee (SPAC). Seeing as how I've known one member of the SPAC -- Sam Strano -- for 10 years, I've kept bugging him about it. (For you old-schoolers, you may remember Sam was on the main SE-R mailing list back-in-the-day and has always liked the cars.)
I talked with Sam yesterday at the local SCCA region's autocross, and he said it was brought up for "about 12 seconds" during their last conference call. Basically, several others agreed that it was a "no brainer" that they should be listed on the same line. Other SPAC members who supported this included Joel Fehrman (who currently owns an SE-R and posts here sometimes) and Allen Kugler, multi-time FSP national champ.
This probably doesn't mean it's a done deal. Sam said it will probably go out in a FasTrack for member comment. So whoever sees it first, post it here. In the mean time, if you know an SEB or SPAC member, pester him/her about it!
Man, threads go like a lead balloon in this section of the forum.
Ha, I read them, I just don't have much to contribute.
I never did understand why the SE-R and NX were listed seperately, and no one ever had a good solid answer for me. Hopefully this resolution will pass.
I have heard that the E36 and IS300 is moving to BSP and the e30 is moving to CSP!!!! Hmmm NOW THAT could make our cars (and the 240sx) very interesting for DSP.
__________________
It only as fast as you drive it!!!
-Scott (racersd2) Dobler
I have heard that the E36 and IS300 is moving to BSP and the e30 is moving to CSP!!!! Hmmm NOW THAT could make our cars (and the 240sx) very interesting for DSP.
That *proposal* is in the same FasTrack. Write your letter on both matters (E36/IS300/E30 move and getting the B13 SE-R and NX2000 on the same line).
Drop an e-mail to the SEB, everyone! Show the SE-R some love, no matter your class. The SCCA has feared the B13 SE-R and NX2000 as some sort of mythical overdog beast from the beginning, and every break in classing is a good thing.
Pat is correct - please write your letters to seb@scca.com. We don't have much feedback on the SE-R/NX2000 proposal yet. You can copy me at apexlater(at)hotmail(dot)com and I'll make sure the letters make it to the SPAC.
While I agree that they should both be listed on the same line, I fail to see how it will help the SE-R be more competetive in DSP. All those things you list from the NX (radiator, brakes) are heavier than the SE-R parts and heavier is not the direction I'd want to go for preping an autocross car.
As a matter of fact, when I did the NCAC event in 2004, I took all that stuff off the car and the OE parts back on so that (besides being legal) the car would be lighter and more competetive. Between the brakes, radiator and all the fluid in the radiator, at least 30 lbs came off the front of the car.
If we wanted competitive cars, this would be the FSP letter-writing thread. The SE-R will never, ever be nationally competitive in DSP as it stands. Reading the blowhard discussions on sccaforum.com, the status of our non-BMWs and underdog FWD brethren will not be helped anytime soon. When it comes down to making more places to play for fast and expensive cars, owners of slow and cheap cars always lose.
Not that a SE-R would still be any good in DSP with the BMWs gone, but that's not what I care about.
The B13 NX2000 and the SE-R are the same exact car and should be on the same line out of principle. SE-R drivers shouldn't be penalized because the Nissan sold us the suck brakes, nor should NX pilots have to run a few pounds overweight because they wanted an egg instead of a box. I remember when the SCCA had the sh*tting fear of the B13 SE-R/NX2000 when it came to classing. Why was the B14 SE-R in ES one year and not the B13 SE-R? Why were the SE-R and NX2000 one of the few cars slated for specific exclusion in the original ST proposal? They owe us.
And of course, no one autocrosses in a vacuum. Those of us not hardcore enough to own single-purpose DSP E36 trailer queens also put our SE-Rs through the paces on the street and at trackdays. No point in going to Crazy Fantasy Class over something trivial - heavier brakes and radiator - that should be legal in class we might like to campaign regionally and divisionally.
I wrote a pretty substantial letter to the SCCA, noting among other things the rising popularity of PDX and Solo Trials events. It sets a good precedent to build the link between the Solo programs by allowing one car's twin to use the other's parts to extend safety, cost, and durability (at no competitive gain, mind it) on a road course. The allowances for IT/Spec Miata cars in SP already pave the way. Would you bring a car set up for Club Racing to win a Solo2 championship? Naw, but any opportunity to enjoy one investment in multiple forms of racing fits the spirit of cost control and inter-series camaraderie that the SCCA doesn't do very well anymore.
E-mailed my letter today to seb@scca.com. In case anybody wants to see what I wrote or piggyback on points I made:
Quote:
Combining the Nissan Sentra SE-R and NX2000 listings in DSP onto one line:
Regarding the proposal of putting the 1991-1994 Nissan Sentra SE-R on the same line as the Nissan NX2000 in the Street Prepared listings, this to me is a no brainer. Other than the body parts, the cars are virtually identical. They share the same engine, drivetrain and suspension. The only major differences are the NX2000 came with slightly larger front brake calipers and rotors as well as a larger radiator. They had different slightly different spring rates and sway bars from the factory, but this is a non-issue in Street Prepared.
These changes won’t make the cars class killers, in my opinion, and there won’t be an issue of “Frankenstein” cars with motors swaps and mixing and matching of other parts (like is the current case with E36 and E30 BMWs).
The NX2000 and ’91-’94 Sentra SE-R are also on the same chassis (called B13 by Nissan), and there is already a precedent of this where cars that appear different but are the same chassis are placed on the same line in Street Prepared (for example, GM Camaro/Firebird, VW Rabbit/Jetta/Scirocco).
And this is what I wrote originally to get the SPAC to consider the move:
Quote:
Proposed change for Street Prepared car classifications:
I am proposing a change to the Street Prepared car classifications to place the 1991-1994 Nissan Sentra SE-R on the same line of the Solo rulebook as the 1991-1993 Nissan NX2000 for the purpose of legally “updating/backdating" components in DSP.
The two cars share the same Nissan chassis code (B13), and the drivetrains (5-speed or automatic transmission with viscous LSD, same gear ratios) are the same, and they are both powered by the Nissan SR20DE.
The major issues between the cars that would affect "update/backdate" in SP are:
• Brakes. Most NX2000 have larger front calipers and rotors (see section entitled "Big Brakes" at http://www.se-r.net/car_info/brake_p...ke%20Hop%20ups for more info). The calipers are single piston (like the Sentra SE-R). A handful of NX2000's did come with the same front brakes found on SE-R's. The rear brakes are identical between the cars.
• The NX2000 has a slightly larger radiator.
The big issue is the difference in front brakes. A common upgrade for Sentra SE-R owners is to change to the NX2000 front brakes. However the drawback is that it adds about 10 pounds of unsprung weight to the car. The NX2000 brakes stay cooler during opentrack days at the racetrack, which is why most Sentra SE-R owners do the upgrade.
The NX2000 brakes bolt right into a Sentra SE-R. The only modification needed is trimming or removing the backing plates, which is legal to do anyway in Street Prepared. An NX2000 master cylinder can be used, but it's not necessary.
The "magazine numbers" that I have seen for 60-0 braking distances showed the NX2000 having a shorter braking distance than the Sentra SE-R by about five feet.
Other than the areas above, the two cars are nearly the same:
• Engines. Both cars come with Nissan's 2.0-liter, 140-hp engine (the SR20DE). In 1994, the Sentra SE-R came with a different SR20DE -- the block was exactly the same as before, but the cylinder head and intake manifold were different. The 1991-1993 SR20DE is commonly known as the "high port" of the cylinder head and intake manifold design, and the 1994 SR20DE is known as the "low port" because of a redesigned head and intake. Although the SE-R engine changed in 1994 (NX2000 production ended the year before of course), horsepower and torque ratings remained the same.
• Suspensions. The NX2000 originally had slightly heavier rear spring rates and thicker sway bars than the Sentra SE-R, but this isn’t an issue for a Street Prepared car. But other than springs and sway bars, they share the same MacPherson struts with coilover springs, control arms, sway bar mounting points, etc. The NX2000 also came with 14X6 wheels with a 40mm offset as opposed to 14X5.5 with 45mm offset for the Sentra SE-R, but again it's not an issue in SP.
Of course a Sentra looks nothing like an NX2000 on the outside, but there are other cars in Street Prepared that share the same line but not the same body components (namely Camaro/Firebird).
Placing the cars on the same line of the Solo rulebook would allow Sentra SE-R and NX2000 owners to a few more options under "update/backdate" when prepping their cars. I don't think a Sentra SE-R with all the NX2000 "updated/backdated" components (brakes, radiator) will turn it into a DSP overdog.
(For you old-schoolers, you may remember Sam was on the main SE-R mailing list back-in-the-day and has always liked the cars.)
