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I just heard that Chris Shenefield (2002 STS Nat Champ) is going to go Nissan and is preparing a 240SX with a DET swap for SM! I directed him to this forum, it should be interesting to watch his development.
I just heard that Chris Shenefield (2002 STS Nat Champ) is going to go Nissan and is preparing a 240SX with a DET swap for SM! I directed him to this forum, it should be interesting to watch his development.
Art
Oh yeah and he is going to use an Electromotive system for ignition rather than a JWT ECU. Should be real interesting.
Personally, I think that car could kick some butt in SM. The big question is would this be a better combo then the AWD options and the RWD BMW/M3 options.
Personally, I think that car could kick some butt in SM. The big question is would this be a better combo then the AWD options and the RWD BMW/M3 options.
AWD has weight issues and if STS proved anything it proved that weight is the enemy in autocross. The BMW's are very fast, I was amazed watching them at last years Nationals, with Reittmier and Tunnell going at it, but they are also heavy cars. I've driven a local competitors 240SX in STS and I was very impressed with its balance, and it doesn't feel heavy. I've been thinking about modding my 280Z for SM2.
Here in the Detroit region we've got the FrankenFocus, an SVT Focus body with a 2003 SVT Mustang (supecharged) drivetrain. It's weird to watch it spin the *rear* tires *anywhere* on the course at will.
We also had a 350 powered Fiero, but that es-sploded.
I'd love to run a DET powered 240 in SM. You can fit a lot of tire under those cars.
__________________
Matt
97 SE-R - Daily driver - winter beater - autox - track slut - drag car - summer cruiser
First touched the keys @ 16 miles, now 150,000+
Boosted as of 11/15/05
"Youth is fleeting, but immaturity can last forever."
I guess I've been found out. Yeah, I'm building a 240SX for Street Modified and drifting. I'm looking for a really cheap car with a blown motor (aren't we all?).... And I also need some help from you guys to learn what tires I can fit on the car. That's the biggest question. I'd like to find some really wide wheels used if possible. And I'll be customizing the fenders I think; so width of the Hoosiers could easily be as high as 275. We'll see..... not sure that's the best way to go anyway.
So, thoughts on wheel width, offset and tire width???
AWD has weight issues and if STS proved anything it proved that weight is the enemy in autocross. The BMW's are very fast, I was amazed watching them at last years Nationals, with Reittmier and Tunnell going at it, but they are also heavy cars. I've driven a local competitors 240SX in STS and I was very impressed with its balance, and it doesn't feel heavy. I've been thinking about modding my 280Z for SM2.
Art
IIRC the 2000 or so and earlier Imprezza's weighed in at about 2800lbs or so. They already have a 2.5. You get the idea. Of course the added weight would hurt it in some spots. Thats why the S13/14 would be a good option. You can get a sub 2500lbs weight easy. Getting the e36m3 that light would be tough I would think. E30's are much lighter but they dont have the quality rear suspension that the S13/14 or the E36 has.
Thats why the S13/14 would be a good option. You can get a sub 2500lbs weight easy. Getting the e36m3 that light would be tough I would think. E30's are much lighter but they dont have the quality rear suspension that the S13/14 or the E36 has.
I'm going to disagree with the crowd and say that the S13/14 will have a tough time in Street Mod (sorry, Chris. I hope I'm wrong!).
First, the e36 can easily get into the 2700# range and with some money, high 2600s is possible.
Second, the THIRD place finisher at Topeka this year was making on the order of 360whp with a supercharger and its not maxed out. The DET will have difficulty getting close to that and still be autoxable.
Third, there is an immense amount of knowledge about how to setup an E36 chassis and be fast. It will take a lot of personal coin to develop the s13/14 to that level. At the very least, I hope Chris knows Bob Stretch.
Not saying it's not possible but it's a lot harder to beat the E36s than is commonly thought, just ask Scott Seck(sp?). My $.02
Here in the Detroit region we've got the FrankenFocus, an SVT Focus body with a 2003 SVT Mustang (supecharged) drivetrain. It's weird to watch it spin the *rear* tires *anywhere* on the course at will.
We also had a 350 powered Fiero, but that es-sploded.
I'd love to run a DET powered 240 in SM. You can fit a lot of tire under those cars.
The V8 would ruin the balance of the Z which is almost a perfect 50/50.
I would think a supercharger or a turbo would be better. Get almost the same horses and not change the cars balance. Of course I'm not sure the Z could ever beat a Z06 so its probably a moot point.
Second, the THIRD place finisher at Topeka this year was making on the order of 360whp with a supercharger and its not maxed out. The DET will have difficulty getting close to that and still be autoxable.
This is where we get 'off course', IMHO. It's not all about power. I've been running my T28 equipped SE-R in Street Mod for a year and a half now. It has more power than I really ever need locally. It competes (and beats, on occasion) the AWD Subaru 2.5s and ITRs I compete against. Competitive.
Faster National Tour and Championships courses would obviously need more power.
Is 400whp too much for a S13 chassis? Probably. The car would be very hard to control. So, lighter weight and less power would be the order of the day if I were approaching this combo.
To me, finding that balance between power and 'too much power' is what would enable a 240 with a DET in it to be *capable* of doing some damage in SM. A T28 is just about perfect, as it spools very quickly and can make power on all but the super-tight/technical (read: slow) courses. The suspension options are amazingly wide and diverse: Surely there is something for everybody.
The only thing that might be better is a GT28 turbo, with a smaller and faster wheel on it, on that same engine. We'll find out come springtime.
I agree with Greg on that...peak power wouldn't be the issue, it's power on demand that's important. Getting on the gas sooner out of a turn is where seconds are made up. A smaller, more responsive turbo like the Garret GT28R mated to the Silvia engine would be close to ideal. 240's have infinite suspension options, so that shouldn't be a problem. Beyond brakes and suspension, it's the driver that makes or breaks the whole car.
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-Zack
-'91 SE-R, Aztec Red: JWT Pop-Charger, Fidanza Flywheel, JWT PP w/01 SE disc. AGXs w/GC coilovers (300/279) & C/C plates. NX2K Brakes w/Carbotech pads & Crown SS lines. Progress rear sway bar. Active Tuning RSTB, ES Bushings & motor mounts.
To me, finding that balance between power and 'too much power' is what would enable a 240 with a DET in it to be *capable* of doing some damage in SM.
Yep, definitely. But it's my belief that, on the fast national courses, you won't be able to give up TOO much HP to the big guys... so you'll probably need close to 300 whp. It's my impression that much power out of a DET is kinda peaky and hard to drive as opposed to the supercharged S52's flat torque curve from 3000ish to 7000. Greg, what kind of power are you running now?
Quote:
The suspension options are amazingly wide and diverse: Surely there is something for everybody.
That's part of my point. I only know of one person who has ever made an S14 competitive on any national level (in this case, ARRC). The suspension choices may be diverse but the developer will have to pick and choose which are the fastest (read: $$$$$$). I could call any number of E36 guys and have an incredibly well-setup car tomorrow. The S14 can compete... it'll just take a lot of time and not a small amount of coin.
Andy - who's really only promoting BMW because he's pissed at his Nissan (and Hotshot) right now... :p
IMO, hp has little to do with auto-x times, or at least not nearly as much as handling does. Lighter is better! I can absolutely crush a Civic Hatch in the 1/4 mile. I mean, absolutely OWN it, even a maxed out STS one. But the 300+ lbs I give up to it are insurmountable on an autocross course.
I actually think a B20vtec swap in the right Civic chassis has a very decent shot at street-mod. That's where I'd look. But I like the idea of a 240SX. Go for it Chris!
The V8 would ruin the balance of the Z which is almost a perfect 50/50.
I would think a supercharger or a turbo would be better. Get almost the same horses and not change the cars balance. Of course I'm not sure the Z could ever beat a Z06 so its probably a moot point.
Art
To run SM you must use a nissan engine. You could run the new V8 out of a truck or the Q45 but not the common V8 Chevy kit you see running around. Plus the Z would need to be the 2+2 to qualify for SM.
Yep, definitely. But it's my belief that, on the fast national courses, you won't be able to give up TOO much HP to the big guys... so you'll probably need close to 300 whp. It's my impression that much power out of a DET is kinda peaky and hard to drive as opposed to the supercharged S52's flat torque curve from 3000ish to 7000. Greg, what kind of power are you running now?
The famed Disco turbo is good for 300whp about and makes the s13 a 12sec car. Plenty of power to keep up with a 350"ish" supercharged BMW. And it is not laggy at all. The HP on the BMW would likely be ideal for autocrossing. Not to much tq down low but a good steady pull thru the top. Turbo would hit harder and faster. Not as good in some ways. The weight of the S13 should be much better for handling.
Oh, and bore or stroke that sucker and you would have a fat tq curve. BMW people spend all the money but it is very doable with the Nissan. Just need the right driver and car. Plus the gods would have to be smiling on them on the right day.
Yeah, I'm building a 240SX for Street Modified and drifting. I'm looking for a really cheap car with a blown motor (aren't we all?).... And I also need some help from you guys to learn what tires I can fit on the car. That's the biggest question. I'd like to find some really wide wheels used if possible. And I'll be customizing the fenders I think; so width of the Hoosiers could easily be as high as 275. We'll see..... not sure that's the best way to go anyway.
