Issues / Please Help ^_^ - SR20 Forum
 
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#1 (permalink) Old 07-04-2009, 02:26 PM
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Issues / Please Help ^_^

Okay guys, finally took the car out for a nice all nighter last night to stretch her legs a little bit. These are the issues I'm reporting, and cannot for the life of me figure out. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I made an awesome boost leak checker and now have zero leaks. I had a leak by the fuel rail and a coupler coming out of the intercooler on the hot side. The problems didn't really change after fixing the boost leaks either.

1) When coming to an idle, it will hold idle fine for a 6-10 seconds and be steady at around 14.0-15.5ish...then all of the sudden it will lean out past 20 and almost stall and I will have to give it some throttle to keep it running. I was not able to get ANYWHERE with this issue, and no matter what adjustments I make, it still does not make any changes (TTPmin, for example).

2) I turned off o2 reporting and made all the cells in the first 5 load scales and all the rev ranges to zero and dialed in the k value while cruising. I had it set perfectly for my 550 injectors (or so I think) and no matter HOW MUCH fuel I pull from the table, it still is ridiculously rich. Right now, for experimental purposes I have the entire table at "05" and it is still about 10.8-11.0 under full throttle. Keep in mind, the injectors are not leaking and the fuel pressure is within normal spec. No adjustments that I could make within any fuel map proved to make any substantial change.

3) This one is annoying, but I can live with it for now. What adjustments can I make to cause the car to drive better coming into the throttle from idle? I tried the TIP-IN enrichment values and they didn't do anything as well. It sucks because it's not smooth at all. It's either on or it's off. It feels like the car is off, and then when you hit the throttle it jerks and takes off. You can't really partial throttle at all. If you do give it very light throttle, the car sputters and you cant' really tell what the o2 readings are as it just jumps around between rich and lean. I put this one at the bottom of the list, because the others are more important for me right now.

//Guys, thanks again for your help. It would be greatly appreciated. Have a good 4th of July!

http://www.ka-t.org
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#2 (permalink) Old 07-04-2009, 03:48 PM
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I had a very similar problem with my ka-t altima. It turned out to be a bad MAF. I had an SAFC hooked up at the time and when the car sputtered at idle you would clearly see the air flow readout on the safc jumping between 0 and 50+% wildly. Bear in mind that this was with the car just idling.

As useless as safc's are, it worked great for me as a diagnostic tool at the time. I have since swapped out the MAF and it's been working great. I'm not sure if this is your problem, but it might be worth looking into. Good luck!
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#3 (permalink) Old 07-04-2009, 03:55 PM
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What maf and k-value?
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#4 (permalink) Old 07-04-2009, 05:42 PM
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What maf and k-value?
Z32 MAF (checked the vq table against another tune with a Z32. I'm actually not near my laptop so I'm not sure what the k-value is. What should it be for DW 550cc's.

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#5 (permalink) Old 07-06-2009, 02:36 PM
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From my memory, the k value is either 38000 or 38500. Either way, the car was perfect cruising with o2 reporting turned off (14.0-15.0). With an enrichment of 5, the car is pig rich, even on partial throttle. I can promise you that there are no boost leaks and the FPR/fuel pump is fine. No leaking injectors also.

Okay, here is the weird part. I, for shits and giggles, put the TTPmin values to the stock values, and the idle is almost 100% better. It's still rich at idle, but doesn't stall at all. I will keep subtracting the values in a linear fashion until it's perfect.

The original formula I did did not even let the car idle at all. It would die instantly.

240/550=.46X(original ttpmin values). Using this formula made the car idle at around 20.0-21.0 and would stall.

http://www.ka-t.org
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#6 (permalink) Old 07-06-2009, 02:38 PM
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Another question I have is...if you only hit the throttle to like 50%, does it apply the full value of whatever cell the ECU is in? I know the TP will be less, but if the values are all the same, should the AFR technically stay around the same, or will be it leaner because you are only at 50% throttle? Is this a hard coded part of the ECU?

Only reason I ask is because it's still ridiculously rich at even partial throttle.

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#7 (permalink) Old 07-06-2009, 05:04 PM
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The map at 0200 I usually set to it all to max (5.10V) and you may have to play with the 0230 map. This causes a TP increase for a bit and it may be throwing you much further to the right than you need too,causing your rich condition.

Get you AFRs down at cruising and WOT first,then concentrate on part throttle tuning
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#8 (permalink) Old 07-06-2009, 05:46 PM
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The map at 0200 I usually set to it all to max (5.10V) and you may have to play with the 0230 map. This causes a TP increase for a bit and it may be throwing you much further to the right than you need too,causing your rich condition.

Get you AFRs down at cruising and WOT first,then concentrate on part throttle tuning
Okay, I will try this, but now my issue is cold start. I adjusted the TTPmin today and got the idle really good, but that was when it was warm. I let the car sit and went out to drive it on my lunch break when it was cold and it wouldn't hold idle. Super lean. Like 20.0-21.0 AFR. The only cold start table I see on my S13 definition file looks like it adjusts timing?

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#9 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 03:27 PM
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Mr. Calum Johnson?

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#10 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 04:51 PM
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This may sound strange but your K value may be off. I dont think many people realize you have to adjust both K and inj. latency at the same time when you upgrade injectors.

I noticed a similar problem when I upgraded to 1000cc injectors. you may have to make your K value a bit smaller and increase latency

make a backup of your current tune and give this a try

*edit- whats your setup?
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#11 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ghostchild316 View Post
This may sound strange but your K value may be off. I dont think many people realize you have to adjust both K and inj. latency at the same time when you upgrade injectors.

I noticed a similar problem when I upgraded to 1000cc injectors. you may have to make your K value a bit smaller and increase latency

make a backup of your current tune and give this a try

*edit- whats your setup?
DW 550'cc injectors with a Z32 MAF.

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#12 (permalink) Old 07-08-2009, 12:51 PM
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I need to know which map adjusts the cold start enrichment. The only maps I see adjust timing apparently in the S13 XDF that I'm looking at. When the car is cold, it won't idle at all and leans out past 21.0 and stalls. When it's warm, it's fine. I'll check the CTS, but I'd like to know if you can adjust the cold start enrichment.

Also, I'm getting a terrible lean out condition when the throttle is hit mildly. It sputters if you hit the gas lightly due to this.

Pretty much the same issues in my OP.

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#13 (permalink) Old 07-08-2009, 12:54 PM
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Can you e-mail me your bin?
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#14 (permalink) Old 07-08-2009, 02:19 PM
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Can you e-mail me your bin?
I can do this around 4pm EST today. I forgot my laptop at home (at work currently), and that's when I can go grab it.

Please keep in mind that it's kind of experimental right now, so some things might look off. The fuel maps are very low, but I'm still experiencing a super rich condition with them being that low.

Calum, when would be a good time to try and call you again? I'd like to just go over this on the phone as I'm sure all the issues would be cleared up, or at least pushed in the direction of being fixed, haha.

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#15 (permalink) Old 07-08-2009, 05:49 PM
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How about Saturday evening?
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#16 (permalink) Old 07-08-2009, 05:57 PM
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How about Saturday evening?
Yeah, that's not a problem. Let me know what time because I know we are in different time zones.

For now, just so I can tinker...is there a cold start map that adjusts the fuel trim when the engine is cold? As per your XDF, it only looks like it adjusts timing.

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#17 (permalink) Old 07-09-2009, 09:41 AM
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I just wanted to add some more info, just so when I speak to you this weekend, I can reference this page so I don't forget to ask you these things...haha.

I did an active test yesterday to simulate the car being cold, and the lean idle condition did not happen. I wonder why that is. That's pretty much the biggest issue right now. When cold, it leans out to like 20.0-21.0 and will stall. When it is warm, it is around 13.0. I know it's rich, but I'm just trying to do some testing to see if it's consistent.

Any ideas as to why the condition did not replicate when I simulated the car being cold?

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#18 (permalink) Old 07-09-2009, 10:12 AM
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You sure that it's not directly related to your sensors on the motor? You say that the lean condition didn't happen, while SIMULATING the car being cold. This would mean that the car is warm?

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#19 (permalink) Old 07-09-2009, 10:45 AM
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You sure that it's not directly related to your sensors on the motor? You say that the lean condition didn't happen, while SIMULATING the car being cold. This would mean that the car is warm?
In NDS, I just changed the water temp to something along the lines of what the car is when cold, and it just made the idle higher, but didn't actually replicate the problem of when the engine is physically cold. So to answer your question, yes the engine is warm when testing this. It's hard because the engine doesn't stay cold long enough to ever test it and change values.

I haven't been able to find an answer to this yet, but IS THERE A MAP that adjusts the FUEL enrichment on cold start? I see maps that say "cold start" on my XDF, but they appear to adjust timing, not fuel.

I also took a video of the stumbling at 1-2% throttle, which I will upload in a little bit. Again, at 1-2% throttle, the car will lean out to a point in which it can not run, and will stall. Have not been able to resolve this yet.

http://www.ka-t.org
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#20 (permalink) Old 07-09-2009, 11:13 AM
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there is an option for cold idle while in gear and one for in neutral as i stated in the PM. now reading your thread here though, you seem pretty damn informed on whats going on with your programing....so if you dont see it, im guessing its not there. it should be right in the same little block section as the option for cold timing. there should be about 5-6 cold adjustment options. i will have to go grab my laptop and check what # option it is. subscribed to this thread as i ALSO dont idle cold!!!!!

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