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I received the rest of my suspension items in today's mail (thanks GregV), and I was test fitting everything together. When doing so, something just doesn't look right with the thrust washer.
I have the front GC "tophat":
The thrust washer fits on the "lip" very well:
But you will see that there is just a small amount of material that connects the 2. It seems odd that such a small area supports +/- 600 lbs -> 1/4 of the car's weight. Is that the way it is supposed to be?
My thought is to add a washer that is a larger I.D. than the "lip", and that would help transfer the weight from the camber plates onto the tophat. Here's my idea using a big washer that I had laying around (I'll probably find some with a smaller I.D., but I had these on hand):
Top view:
Installed:
I don't think this issue is related to Cusco camber plates, but I don't have the little conical washer that some Cusco's have. Example:
Quote:
Originally Posted by McCoy
It looks like that little conical washer is provided to clear the length of the bolts on the plates. Did you other guys just install the thrust washer and go? Or am I missing something?
You know I had a question about this before I installed my gc's/cusco's on my grey car...
I currently have the GC's on both cars. The b14 has stock top hats, and the grey car has the cusco camber plates.
I had the conical washer with my b13 setup, but I thought that the thrust bearing was still needed... but I couldn't figure out the best way to install it. The funny thing is I went ahead and put it on the way that you had it... I used one of the old style plastic thrust bearings, and one of the new style metal ones... the metal one on the driver side SHATTERED within 1 day and fell into pieces, but the plastic one remained there.
I think the washer idea is a good idea given the top "moving" portion of the piece doesn't have contact with the washer, otherwise it would defeat the purpose and cause friction. Also unless the inner diameter of the washer almost the same as the outer diameter of the bearing, I think it would hurt more than help. My advice would be one of two things...
1. If you're going to use the cusco camber plates, possibly see if you can order the conical washers from eibach?
2. Use the thrust bearings with the stock top hats (ewww)
I am not using the thrust bearings anymore on my grey car and just using the conical washers.... but I wouldn't exactly call myself the suspension genius I just worked with what i had after I broke them sh*ts.
Josh, can you take an angled picture of the bearing from the bottom end?
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1993 B13 SE-R!!!! | SR20VE Daily
1996 D21 4x4!!!!!!! | KA24E Bike Hauler
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1991 NX-TuRBO | SR20DET Parted Out
1993 NX2000!!!!!!!! | SR20DE Sold
1993 B13 SE-R!!!! | SR20DET Parted Out
1995 240sx BaSe | VQ30DET Sold
1991 240sx SE!!!!! | KA24DE Sold
I think the washer idea is a good idea given the top "moving" portion of the piece doesn't have contact with the washer, otherwise it would defeat the purpose and cause friction. Also unless the inner diameter of the washer almost the same as the outer diameter of the bearing, I think it would hurt more than help. My advice would be one of two things...
Over lunch, I went to the hardware store and found a washer to try. It is a 1" I.D. lock washer (the largest they had), and I'm going to flatten it and spread it a small amount. The thickness should be just about perfect. I'll try to take a couple pics when I'm finished with it. This should support the thrust washer and it is steel, so it should be able to handle the loadings placed upon it.
Unless you install the thrust washer different when using camber plates, you have it upside down. The big part should go on the top of the GC tophat.
I think I know what you are saying. Flip the washer over in my pic, that will put the larger diameter portion directly touching the GC tophat. Then, you bridge the "smaller lip" so it does not support the load - in Monty's pic, I think the conical washer bridges over the "smaller lip":
Quote:
Originally Posted by McCoy
If that is correct, I can still bridge the "smaller lip" w/ my idea as the loadings will still by-pass the small lip onto the rest of the thrust washer.
Over lunch, I went to the hardware store and found a washer to try. It is a 1" I.D. lock washer (the largest they had), and I'm going to flatten it and spread it a small amount. The thickness should be just about perfect. I'll try to take a couple pics when I'm finished with it. This should support the thrust washer and it is steel, so it should be able to handle the loadings placed upon it.
Josh
Yeah, I'd like to see what you come up with you crazy mang you!
OK, I think I solved my issue. I haven't installed everything on the car yet as it has been a busy couple of days.
My 1st idea consisted of getting some big lock washers from the hardware store.
Bottom Left: how it started out.
Bottom Center: after being heated up w/ the torch and smashed flat in the vice.
Bottom Right: after being heated up some more and spread a part.
Ignore Top row for now.
This is how it fit. It could have worked, but I didn't like it at all.
So I decided to quit messing around and went to see my new buddies at Fastenal. He provide the washer in the 1st pic on the top left. Something like $1.60 and it is the "ultra strength" or something like that. It almost fit perfect on the thrust washer. All it took was 15 seconds with the Dremel and a stone, and it fit like a glove.
Side view:
This should provide the necessary strength and spacing to use with the Cusco camber plates - and also eliminate the complaint that some people have about the Cusco's raising the car 1" b/c of the little conical washer.
I have one question though. You know that pivot ball (forgive the terminology) within the camber plates?... the conical washer only touches to allow the pivot ball to move around with the suspension under load. With the new sweet ass washer in there will it allow for the ball to move? It doesn't seem like it will with the plates...
I have one question though. You know that pivot ball (forgive the terminology) within the camber plates?... the conical washer only touches to allow the pivot ball to move around with the suspension under load. With the new sweet ass washer in there will it allow for the ball to move? It doesn't seem like it will with the plates...
I get what you are saying. I have noticed that it appears there are 2 diff't types of Cusco plates. The plates above (McCoy's) are one style, and below are my actual plates:
All I have right now are those pics in front of me, but it appears that the pillow mount (pivot ball) is slightly recessed below the other portion of the plate which should allow room to move before the new washer would impact the movement.
After seeing the first style w/ the little conical washer, it appeared to me that the washer was required to "clear" the exposed threads on the plates. In addition, when I look at the 1st style pictures, I think that the conical washer actually sits flush with the "pivot ball" and is always touching the pivot ball.
Conical washer style of plate - loading/weight transfer:
Camber plate
Conical washer
Thrust bearing
GC Tophat
My style that doesn't need (or have) conical washer - loading:
In my setup (top side loadings only), I think the weight/loads will be supported by the thick steel (black) portion of the camber plate and the pillow ball mount will control the side to side movements of the strut rod. The style w/ the conical washer looks like the pillow mount has all of the weight and movements going through it - possibly increasing the wear on the actual pillow mount (aka pivot mount).
*I'm not a mechanical engineer and/or suspension guru.*
Won't the tall part of the thrust washer, fit inside the cut out in the camber plate?
It may, but using it upside down with the tall part up WILL shatter it if its the new style... I know at least mine did I thought I could do it like that and one bump later bla-dow... frosted thrust washer flakes mmm. I took it out and cleaned it up and now my conical washer rests over the ring of the GC spring hat.
I'm not sure thats the correct way to do it but I haven't seen any problems yet... I'm so glad this thread is alive, Stupidly I in too much of a bind to ask or take pics. I searched and I couldn't find anything....
On a side note, I have the old style Cusco Plates..
Won't the tall part of the thrust washer, fit inside the cut out in the camber plate?
I was looking at the pics and wondered the same thing - but you pointed it out.
Yes, the thrust washer fits right inside all snug. I ended up using the washer trick anyway last night as I did just the thrust washer and it had slightly more friction when I tried to turn it - it could have been that the bottom of my Cusco's were slightly pitted, so then I used the washer and it felt a little smoother.
Tokes, I still think the washer trick will work just fine on your style also - I'm not sure which style is the new or old as I bought mine used. Based on your pic, I would be curious how the washer trick with the thrust washer would fit on your setup and leave out the conical washer - I'm not one to leave parts out on purpose, but it might be a benefit? Your style looks like it has a small amount of "slope" in towards the pillow mount. It would be pretty slick if the washer fit right in there.
I assembled my stuff last night, and started installing everything on the car - well, I started in the rear.
Maybe it's the GC plates that I have, but my set up looks totally different. I've got a beaing that sits in the GC top hat and a conical spacer fits between it and the plate.
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Maybe it's the GC plates that I have, but my set up looks totally different. I've got a bearing that sits in the GC top hat and a conical spacer fits between it and the plate.
I would venture a guess that the difference is the GC plates mount on top of the shock tower and the Cuscos mount below. I haven't seen the GC plates in person though.
I would venture a guess that the difference is the GC plates mount on top of the shock tower and the Cuscos mount below. I haven't seen the GC plates in person though.
Josh
But the only real difference is in the shape of the plate. I can't wrap my brain around how yours are supposed to move. Next time I have mine apart I'll take some pics.
Wouldnt the conical spacer let it "pivot"? That way when you turn or the camber angle changes during compression the bearing would move instead of metal on metal grinding? It just seems to me that the conical spacer in there is to prevent binding and grinding and metal on metal action.
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It seems that some people have been spoon feed their whole lives, It is societies job to teach them how to use the spoon for themselves.
This is an old thread, but I agree with you. The thrust washer should allow sufficient rotational movement, but the strut would be fighting the spring to move properly during camber changes during compression. The OEM rubber mount or the spherical bearing with the conical washer allow the spring and strut shaft to move together instead of fighting each other. I believe that the spherical bearing is SUPPOSED to support the weight of the car, it is not just there to provide movement to the strut shaft.
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The big part should go on the top of the GC tophat.
I thought I could do it like that and one bump later bla-dow... frosted thrust washer flakes mmm. I took it out and cleaned it up and now my conical washer rests over the ring of the GC spring hat.
