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I want an experienced answers only. No paper theory. No Hyperco or Roadmagnet comments please. Just that set up. I have two cars here that are not swapping springs.
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Last edited by Shawn B : 01-16-2008 at 03:50 PM. Reason: So I could flame him harder
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Originally Posted by sonny
Sudden draws of power at the hands of a sub(s) playing some Too Short will eat away at any alternator
I want an experienced answers only. No paper theory. Just that set up. I have two cars here that are not swapping springs.
I'm gonna post the "paper theory" anyways, just for the folks that are not familiar with this topic.
I would also love to hear actual feedback from an owner.
After discussions with Steve, it seems that the Pro-Kit drop is small enough when combined with CSK's, that you should have damn near stock-OEM length suspension travel.
Pro-Kits/CSK's you would lose 0.20" inches of OEM travel with a B13.
Pro-Kits/CSK's you would lose 0.40" inches of OEM travel with a B14.
On paper, with the "20%" firmer than stock Pro-Kit springs, and much better CSK struts, everything should be pretty damn nice on a DD.
I don't see how, on paper, that would not logically work acceptably.
*B13 Sportline: 1.6" drop front, 1.5" drop rear.
Struts To Use: CSK's only for a daily driver, no OEM length struts.
Rate: Per Eibach technical support: No information on exact spring rate. However, the Sportline will be "30-35% firmer than stock." *B13 Pro Kit: 1.2" drop front, 1.2" drop rear.
Struts To Use: CSK's only for a daily driver, no OEM length struts.
Rate: Per Eibach technical support: No information on exact spring rate. However, the Pro Kit will be "20% firmer than stock."
Friendly guy, reasonable information I suppose.
*Note: Both types of Eibach springs for the B13 have been discontinued, they are no longer in production.
Still available for the B14 and B15:
B14 Sportline: 1.9" front drop, 1.9" rear drop
Struts To Use: Will not work well with any struts. B14 Pro-Kit: 1.4" front drop, 1.4" rear drop
Struts To Use: CSK's only for a daily driver, no OEM length struts.
B15 Sportline: 1.5" front drop, 1.4" rear drop
Struts To Use: CSK's only for a daily driver, no OEM length struts. B15 Pro-Kit: 1.2" front drop, 1.0" rear drop
Struts To Use: CSK's only for a daily driver, no OEM length struts.
You guessed it, the spring rates are not available from Eibach. Then I found this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Sentra.Net
Eibach Pro-Kit spring rates: (Rates are lb/in. All rear springs are progressive)
Car Front Rear Source of Info
Sentra SE-R: 150 front, 80 - 180 rear Eibach*
NX2000: 160 front, 80 - 180 rear Eibach*
200SX SE-R: 160 front, 137 - 257 rear NISMO catalog
* Kit Wetzler asked an Eibach engineer directly
Which indicates that the Eibachs for all of our cars are both too low and too soft.
Pretty White, you should just do it and provide feedback. Be the guniea (sp?) pig Forum test-pilot.
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2004 Tahoe, stock and fully loaded.
'93 Classic - R.I.P. 2007 My mechanical companion. Operation Resuscitation underway....
I guess my question is what are you looking to get out of this setup. Assuming you already have the sprigns and were happy with them, are you looking for a better ride overall, better handeling than what you currently have?
I thinks some of the insight you are looking for can be given even without haveing had this particular setup if you answer the above questions.
As far as results. This setup would/should be nearly as comfortable as stock handle better and have almost zero downsides. I would consider some Koni bumpstops with this setup and just enjoy the nearly stock ride with lower height.
I have Tokiko lowering springs on Steve's shortened Konis. They aren't Prokits, they are actually a good bit shorter. The car is actually much lower than my track car (Steve's Konis with GC coilovers).
The ride is excellent. I think I might bottom out on the roughest roads, but that is rare. Prokits sit a bit higher (I think), so that should take care of it.
IMO, short Konis are mandatory for lowering springs on our cars. Before I put on the Konis I had the Tokikos on that the previous owner had installed. The ride was horrible.
ian, whats with you and suspension lol. just put something on there now. run agx's with whatever spring you want, cause you obviously dont seem to care about the 1 conventional spring for our cars that are known to be the best.
ian, whats with you and suspension lol. just put something on there now. run agx's with whatever spring you want, cause you obviously dont seem to care about the 1 conventional spring for our cars that are known to be the best.
stratton.
Or, do what he is thinking about, and get some REAL dampers at the same time. Then in the future he can upgrade to coilovers OR keep it with the lowering springs and enjoy the easy ride. I would choose Koni's over the other springs any day of the week. Get the B15 fronts for your fronts and just use the standard B13 rear Koni in the rear of your B13
On second thought for the Prokits I would just use the B13 Konis all the way around. I think it would be better that way. Thats what Matt is using. I would also only do this setup if you WANT a comfortable ride. If you want firm go with the Hyperco springs.
And Steve and in a way Shawn B answered the question for me. As Shawn asked, and I will report back, I am always the guinea pig when it comes to things like this. I expect some good results with CSK's from Steve (I am not sending cores, so I expect you have some? I hope??) These are street cars, I am not going to go high ball over budget and I really hate to lose the asthetic factor (which is based on personal opinion) of raise in ride height.
Thank you Wes and MadMatt. Wes, it is strictly a street car. Some weeks an after work DD to be exact. I like the ride of H&R even better than the Pro Kit, so I am curious as to how that would ride.
Thank you Wes and MadMatt. Wes, it is strictly a street car. Some weeks an after work DD to be exact. I like the ride of H&R even better than the Pro Kit, so I am curious as to how that would ride.
I would just see if the drop is about the same as the ProKit. As long as it's not a huge drop it will be fine. BTW, someone should check on the Tokico springs and what they advertise as the drop. I think it's nearly 2 inch's. Again, I would recommend the the Koni Bumpstops as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty White
And Steve and in a way Shawn B answered the question for me. As Shawn asked, and I will report back, I am always the guinea pig when it comes to things like this. I expect some good results with CSK's from Steve (I am not sending cores, so I expect you have some? I hope??)
You do realize I don't make them anymore. I have posted and will help you do your own. Just dive in and post a thread if you run into any questions. Measure twice, ask before you cut, youll be fine.
I have Tokiko lowering springs on Steve's shortened Konis. They aren't Prokits, they are actually a good bit shorter. The car is actually much lower than my track car (Steve's Konis with GC coilovers).
The ride is excellent. I think I might bottom out on the roughest roads, but that is rare. Prokits sit a bit higher (I think), so that should take care of it.
IMO, short Konis are mandatory for lowering springs on our cars. Before I put on the Konis I had the Tokikos on that the previous owner had installed. The ride was horrible.
Actually, the Tokicos are damned close to the Pro Kits in terms of drop.
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Originally Posted by Suspension Thread
Tokico Springs
B13: 1.25" drop front, 1.25" drop rear
Struts To Use: CSK's only for a daily driver, no OEM length struts.
Rate: 156 front, 152 rear.
Tokico even gave up the spring rates. Rare amongst major manufacturers.
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Originally Posted by STRATTON
ian, whats with you and suspension lol. just put something on there now. run agx's with whatever spring you want, cause you obviously dont seem to care about the 1 conventional spring for our cars that are known to be the best. stratton.
We've actually got two (2) solid choices now. The progressive rate and undeniably bad-ass Hypercos, and the linear rate and very affordable Road Magnets.
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Originally Posted by Pretty White
I like the ride of H&R even better than the Pro Kit, so I am curious as to how that would ride.
On paper,you should be in good shape:
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Originally Posted by Suspension Thread
H&R - http://www.hrsprings.com/site/index.html
(Applications: B13, B14, B15) B13: 1.3" drop front, 1.3" drop rear.
Struts To Use: CSK's only for a daily driver, no OEM length struts. B14: 1.5" drop front, 1.4" drop rear.
Struts To Use: CSK's only for a daily driver, no OEM length struts.
B15: 1.5" drop front, 1.4" drop rear
Struts To Use: CSK's only for a daily driver, no OEM length struts.
Rate: Per H&R's technical support line: "Unavailable to the public. Our Sport springs are designed to be used with the rest of the stock suspension including the struts." Bah, nice guy, lame answer, CSK's only for a daily driver.
MSRP all springs: $299.00
Ballpark price: $210.00 at Tire Rack.
H&R/CSK's and you would lose 0.30" of travel with the B13 platform.
H&R/CSK's and you would lose 0.50" F and 0.40" R of OEM travel with the B14 platform.
I'm *guessing* the H&R's are 20-35% stiffer than stock springs, H&R will not divulge their sport spring rates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98sr20ve
I would just see if the drop is about the same as the ProKit. As long as it's not a huge drop it will be fine. BTW, someone should check on the Tokico springs and what they advertise as the drop. I think it's nearly 2 inch's. Again, I would recommend the the Koni Bumpstops as well.
See above on the H&R's and Tokicos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98sr20ve
You do realize I don't make them anymore. I have posted and will help you do your own. Just dive in and post a thread if you run into any questions. Measure twice, ask before you cut, youll be fine.
PM me Ian if you decide you want someone to build them, and no it would not be me. But there are two (2) folks besides Steve that can turn out a set for you.
Actually, the Tokicos are damned close to the Pro Kits in terms of drop.
My car sits LOW with Tokikos. I mean, low low low. Lemme see if I can upload a picture of it at home and post it up. I scrape the curb on the way in/out of work. Even my boss said "D@MN, that car is LOW!"
Matt would know because he is running a 1.5ish inch drop on his other B13. Tokico may say it's only a small drop but the reality may be very different.
My car sits LOW with Tokikos. I mean, low low low. Lemme see if I can upload a picture of it at home and post it up. I scrape the curb on the way in/out of work. Even my boss said "D@MN, that car is LOW!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98sr20ve
Matt would know because he is running a 1.5ish inch drop on his other B13. Tokico may say it's only a small drop but the reality may be very different.
Agreed. I'm not saying the published drop is correct, nor that they did not change it during the production run. I can only go with what I researched. It would not suprise me a bit if the "Other Spring Manufacturers" from the Suspension Thread stated incorrect or erroneous information about their products.
Hell, most of those "Other Spring Manufacturers" state that their springs were "designed to work with OEM length struts." Which is utter and complete horsesh*t.
Both of you gentlemen are waaaaay beyond my very limited book-knowledge level.
I am a mere student of our suspensions, and would defer to either of your expertise on nearly any suspension question.
This is becoming a very informative thread. I love it when suspension-smart guys (you two most certainly qualify) are discussing our suspensions.
