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Well I got a new set of K-sports and was wondering if anyone else was using them and what success' they are having. I did a lot of playing around with them on my last auto-x but it does not seem like I have them dialed in yet. What I was looking for is where you have yours set so I can get a good starting point?
Just start full soft and only adjust them if you feel you need something different. Drive it full soft for a while to get the feel of them. Softer is better with simple type units as long as they are not bottoming. Make sure you have them setup with only a small amount of preload to hold the spring in place. Don't preload them.
I used them on my roadracing b13 last year. Swapped to shorter springs to get clearance in the rear for 225 hoosiers. Always ran them full stiff front and rear with ~450F 650R springs and the progress rear bar. Car rotates alot when the tires are cold, then is pretty neutral when they warm up. Maybe you don't want to run rates that high without a cage though.
Do what I said. Start full soft. Thats how you properly tune a race car as well.
Usually if you run a decent amount of spring you want alot of damping. I've never heard of anyone running autox or roadrace cars with dampers on the low settings, usually the opposite. It's easy to underdamp, but takes alot to overdamp.
Usually if you run a decent amount of spring you want alot of damping. I've never heard of anyone running autox or roadrace cars with dampers on the low settings, usually the opposite. It's easy to underdamp, but takes alot to overdamp.
I said to start on full soft and adjust them after you feel the need for something different. I also know those dampers are not the best and as you adjust them the compression dampening goes up. Usually not what you want. Also, most new autocrossers just blindly do what they see others doing. You need to test the car. Proper way to start testing is set the car full soft. GRM had a great article written by Lee Grimes of Koni on how to do this. He also pointed out that full stiff is seldom the right thing.
A good example is a stock class autocross car. This situation involves shoveling a car designed to get Grandma to the market through a ultra-twisty track at speeds that would cause Grandma to faint. Getting the understeer or oversteer out of a 1995 Sniveling Wombat to make it a fast-rotating Snarling Wombat can be accomplished with proper adjustable shocks.
Stiffer suspension is not always better. As a matter of fact, once you are in a desired range of performance and everything is working properly, a slightly softer setup can give you more leeway for unexpected situations. Simply clamping the car down as hard as it can go may mask the suspension's true abilities and functions, and the result will be a flat-running, harsh-riding, high-compromise skateboard.
It's not the quote I remember but that at least helps you understand why you start soft and work your way up. He also describes the effects of compression dampening. If you go to the suspension thread on the main Honda racing forum they have a dampening curve of the D2's which shows the increase in compression dampening being pretty dramatic.
Yeah make it nice and soft to allow for the full range of the b13's sweet suspension geometry....
I guess it depends entirely on what you want to do. In a stock autocross class you have soft springs, so stiff dampers probably aren't a good match. That's the only case I can think of.
Most any other situation with higher spring rates, you will need more damping. The problem with K-Sport type setups is they don't actually have enough damping for a decent spring, plus they tend to get worse as they get hot.
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I also know those dampers are not the best and as you adjust them the compression dampening goes up.
Isn't that the idea?
Autoxse-r, can you post your complete car setup, class, etc so we can make a more detailed recomendation?
Yeah make it nice and soft to allow for the full range of the b13's sweet suspension geometry....
I don't know why I bother when people can't comprehend a damn thing. Start soft and work your way up. Simple as that.
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Originally Posted by redXman
I guess it depends entirely on what you want to do. In a stock autocross class you have soft springs, so stiff dampers probably aren't a good match. That's the only case I can think of.
Hardly stock with Ksports now is he
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Originally Posted by redXman
Most any other situation with higher spring rates, you will need more damping. The problem with K-Sport type setups is they don't actually have enough damping for a decent spring, plus they tend to get worse as they get hot.
They are already on the edge of too stiff for most autocross surfaces and the B13. Assuming printed spring rates are accurate.
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Originally Posted by redXman
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Originally Posted by 98sr20ve
I also know those dampers are not the best and as you adjust them the compression dampening goes up. Usually not what you want.
Isn't that the idea?
Uhmm, , NO. Read the article I posted to start with.
I don't know why I bother when people can't comprehend a damn thing. Start soft and work your way up. Simple as that.
ok everybody bow down to the almightly 98sr20ve, he is all knowing because he read an article with a guy from Koni quoted in it. Genius! Nice supporting thoughts on why to do that. Really convincing.
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Hardly stock with Ksports now is he
i was just trying to come up with an instance where you might actually be right. Sorry for trying to make you not look like a complete retard. You're the one who tried to compare a stock autocross class to what this guy is doing, not me.
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Uhmm, , NO. Read the article I posted to start with.
OK, so that knob is there for fun or what?! OF COURSE THE KNOB ADJUSTS COMPRESSION!!! Actually a combination of compression and rebound together on K-Sports. Maybe that knob adjusts wedge, yeah that's it bro. I know someone who's a knob.........
You need to chill man, what Matt said is the way to go about it. Not sure what the deal is on this thread, but if it doesn't cool it, I will gladly close it.
Brent
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I like the input, and for redXman I run in DSP the set is for now front and rear swaybars upper front strut tower k-sports and hoosier slicks camber is set at -2 I think thats it for right now
You need to chill man, what Matt said is the way to go about it.
Who's Matt?
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I like the input, and for redXman I run in DSP the set is for now front and rear swaybars upper front strut tower k-sports and hoosier slicks camber is set at -2 I think thats it for right now
Make sure your toe settings are good too, maybe start with 0->1/16" out in the front and 0->1/16" in for the rear. I was able to get around -2.5deg camber in the front on my setup, and maybe set the rear for -0.5deg. Especially with those tires, you'll have too much rear grip.
The biggest problem autocrossing my car was to get it to rotate. Assuming your rear bar is set full stiff, the only way to do this at the event will be to adjust the dampers. I've used rear full stiff and fronts about 1/2 way and it worked pretty well. Let us know what you find works best!
I may look like a d!ck in this thread, but I don't like people without specific applicable experience throwing out random articles and saying, "Do this because I said so. And I read it somewhere, so it must be right, and applicable in this case." Then demeaning anyone else who chimes in (ROFL, seriously, what adult uses that term?) If you have a point, you should be able to back it up with technical knowledge and real-world experience. I have this same setup so figured I could give some input. 98sr20ve is a good reason why I don't normally post on internet forums, quick to bite for no reason, and always 100% right. I'd gladly compare engineering and racing resumes any day.
98sr20ve is a good reason why I don't normally post on internet forums, quick to bite for no reason, and always 100% right. I'd gladly compare engineering and racing resumes any day.
I bite because my advice was very simple and you for some reason don't understand it or misinterpret it. It's common to start full soft and work your way up. For some reason you seem to want to go against all conventional wisdom and recommend what? Full stiff, shoot you didn't recommend anything (up to that point) other then to say " 'I' Always ran them full stiff front and rear". I only post a article from a reputable person to help others understand why I would recommend what I did. You can post any resume you want but your advice is wrong if you recommend just blindly relying on someones internet experience to set the dampers. My advice was to start testing with the knobs full soft. Simple as that. Also, your comment that the knob adjust compression and rebound as NORMAL is somewhat wrong. Good dampers adjust MOSTLY rebound and make only a small change in compression dampening. D2's have the typical jdm issue (even though they are not JDM) of adjusting a lot more compression dampening at the same time that they adjust rebound (it's nearly linear rather then a 90/10 split). Hence, my recommendation of starting full soft so that he can test and see if he really needs to introduce even more compression dampening into the suspension. My guess is that if he does some real testing and is a consistent driver enough to measure the differences he will find best results well away from full stiff, especially with stock D2springs. Do I own D2's? Hell no. Most people here on this forum know me well enough to know I would never buy D2's. I might use the housings to throw some Koni's into but other then that I wouldn't bother with them. But it's not hard to recommend to someone a method for helping them come to their own conclusion what dampening is appropriate for their car.
Make sure your toe settings are good too, maybe start with 0->1/16" out in the front and 0->1/16" in for the rear. I was able to get around -2.5deg camber in the front on my setup, and maybe set the rear for -0.5deg. Especially with those tires, you'll have too much rear grip.
Thats actually pretty good advice. You don't need a lot of rear camber (but you may end up with it anyway, it's been a while since I aligned a lowered b13). I do know that the B13's I have aligned ended up liking some rear toe out for autocrossing. But I would start with it set to zero in the back. When I autocrossed I used up to 3-3.5 degrees camber in the front but I had a Quaife so your results may be different. More camber will help for cornering but will hurt your acceleration. 2.5 is a good place to start in the front. Zero to a little toe out in front is also a good start. You should really learn how to adjust your own alignment as thats where things can really help far more then the dampening in most cars.
