gregman_1

Hey Shawn, would you recommend Megan Racing coilovers with 19" rims? Or doyou think they would scrub? I was thinking of going with these:

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Shawn B

Interesting observation.

In theory, would the RM's, which are a linear rate spring, absolve the "unpredictable....mushy...unresponsive" feel of the Hyperco's? All other factors being equal?

Further, I would have to point out that this is all relative. Ie....even if you do not like the Hyperco's as much as the "more precise" GC set-up, it does not necessarily make the Hyperco's bad per se. It merely suggests that there are other less "unpredictable....mushy...unresponsive" alternatives to the Hypercos. Would you say we are talking "degrees of difference"?

I think it would still be safe to say that there are two (2) solid choices in conventional springs, Hyperco's or RM's. How "good" is a matter of perspective, preference, experience, and feel to the vehicles pilot.

Uh.....is this a serious question? Or is your question being funny and sarcastic? Hard to tell sometimes on the intraweb.

I'll take your question as serious.

Those wheels are waaaaaay too big. They will NEVER fit under a B13 or a B14 unless you perform body work on the wheel wells. I don't even think rolling the fenders will allow that big of wheel. They will weigh a ton and negatively impact your performance plus change your speedo (gear ratios) to never read right. And, looks are subjective, but those wheels are utterly hideous.

You can read my opinion of wheels in The Suspension Thread. My opinion echo'ing those presented by the experts. And I have an entire section on "Wheels and Tires."

I would NEVER (ever) go bigger than 17" on a B13 or B14, and I personally think that is too big. It is for "aesthetics over function." Some folks like the look of the 17" wheels, and I must say that 16" wheels "look" quite nice under a B13 or B14.

If I were to purchase non-OEM wheels, I would go with a lightweight 15" rim, the widest I could stuff under the wheel-well with no adverse effects. Probably a classic looking 5 or 6 spoke rim of some sort.

I ride around in my Classic on B14 SE-R rims. 15", traditional 5-spoke, and being OEM they are invisible to theives. I love them on Classics, and have no plans to ever change them.

There is a thread on the Megan Racing Coilovers that I started. They seem to be a "low to mid" level coilover. Decent enough, priced OK, not a "bad" choice by any means.

However, were I to go with coilovers, I would have veilside or Steve (98sr20ve) build me a set of CSK-based GC sleeve coilovers. I would discuss my particular driving parameters with one of them, and have them recommend to me which Koni inserts (there is a HUGE thread by 98sr20ve on the subject), and which spring rates would be ideal for my uses. Then, being that I am mechanically inept, I would pay (one of) them to build me set ready to bolt on.

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^Nice post "B".........I was waiting to see how you would respond. I started to last night, but I saw that he mentioned your name so I decided to wait. I argee with shawn though......Waaaaaaaaaay to BIG! I feel that anything bigger than a 17" wheel on a B13 or B14 chassis is not the way to go.

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Coheed

I remember when I bought my hypercos a few years back and everybody raved about how great they made the car handle! Now I hear things like this? Hmmm. I haven't even gotten a chance to use the springs yet haha. I have the suspension ready to go, but haven't put it on.

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Shawn B

Thanks, I was trying very hard to be tactful and nice. Not exactly my strong suits.

I have read nearly everything ever posted on the SR20 forums concerning suspensions. Not to mention every magazine article on our platforms (B13 and B14 primarily) suspension options.

The Hyperco's and RM's are universally praised as excellent aftermarket springs. That fact does not change with Veilsides opinion as stated, which is why I am trying to pin him down to specifics.

A couple of things to remember:

1) Veilside is very, very, suspension educated and therefore ultra-picky about suspensions. He has tons of experience with a variety of suspensions. Just because he likes the CSK/GC coilover set-up better than the Hyperco's does not discount the Hyperco's. Steve (98sr20ve) also likes the CSK/GC set-up the best, and he thinks it is the best suspension value for your average Joe.

2) I would argue that the Hyperco's and RM's are still excellent, even superb, aftermarket springs. Compared to all the other (bullsh*t) aftermarket springs that are out there on the market for any and all vehicles. The Hyperco's and RM's being Thee Only Two (2) conventional springs that are worthy of our vehicles. And the two (2) that were designed with compromise in mind to work with either OEM length or shortened struts. Both designed to be an "all around, general" excellent spring. Not an "application specific" spring.

3) Just because Veilside (IMO an expert) notices a difference between CSK/Hyperco and CSK/GC in a back-to-back comparison does not mean that I could. And IF I could, would the difference really matter to me in my daily driving? (Maybe, someday, in an autocross?) I currently have zero need to raise, lower, or "play with" my suspension, nor do I think I would even have the expertise to do so effectively and with positive results.

I am going to "pick apart" his remarks, not to jump on Veilside nor disregard his opinion, just to absolutely clarify his remarks. I respect the man 100%, and know for damn sure that he has waaaaaay more knowledge and experience than do I. It ain't even close.

"Little"? Define "little". Would this be very noticable to your average dude (me) during daily-driving?

Compared back-to-back with the GC equipped vehicle, that has spring rates 140 pounds stronger in the front and 200 pounds stronger in the rear.

How about compared to stock? Or any other conventional aftermarket spring for our cars? A back to back with the RM's would be ideal.

"Night and day" for what exact purpose? Running around town, autocross, road racing?

"Hardly any more harsh"? From what I can gather, the CSK/Hyperco set-up is very, very, comfortable. Near stock levels of comfort. How much comfort is given up in the pursuit of absolute precision with the CSK/GC set-up? Would an old-fart (with creaky bones) notice the increase in harshness when upgrading (yes, upgrading.....$$$) to the GC set-up?

Besides the obvious differences in the spring rates GC 440/400 vs Hyperco300/200.....

How do those Koni's affect the performance of the two suspensions?

How stiff is the ST sways vs. Progress sways, and would that factor affect ride quality or harshness?

Would GC in a 300/200 rate also feel more precise, less "mushy and unresponsive" with "better initial turn-in" than the Hypercos? Do you think that the RM's, which are a linear rate (300/200) would be more akin to the GC set-up or the Hyperco springs? Ie...is the progressive rate spring inherently a more....vague feeling spring than a linear rate spring?

Does "mushy" also mean less jarring over road imperfections?

Were there any differences in the bracing, bushings, or strut mounts between the two vehicles? Was either vehicle ever in an accident?

What is the financial difference between the CSK/Hyperco set-up and the CSK/GC set-up if someone built the CSK's themselves? What is the difference in price if someone (like me, mechanically inept) paid someone like you (or Steve) to build me a set of CSK's in either configuration, for the GC's, or Hyperco/RM conventional springs?

Now...once Veilside answers all my questions, then and only then, can someone make an honest evaluation of whether or not it is worth the extra money to them, in order to upgrade ($$$) from the Hyperco's to the GC sleeves. All other things being equal.

And Veilside, you KNOW that I am not picking on you or your highly-valued opinion on our suspensions. I want the answers, because of your expertise and ability to translate "suspension feel" to dollars and sense (spelled just the way I spelled it, on purpose.)

Benito Malito

Wow Shawn you've been hard at work on this thread. I just wanted to chime in.

I've had Hyperco 2s and GC before. I currently have RM 1s on my SE-R (RM 2 sit 0.25" higher). I always have had AGXs.

Most likely I am going to convert back to Hyperco 2 in few weeks. I like the initial softness of the progressive rate. Hyperco behaves more like the stock SE-R which is super-fun. I also need the car to be a bit higher off the ground with the custom downpipe coming and the street scraper I have on there now.

Road magnet is a very good spring and I was very happy to run them the last year and a half. Most of my decision is based on trading parts I have in hand and getting the car up a bit higher.

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veilside180sx

I don't perform the work on a typical Koni OTS setup, because it's not worth my time. I'll help locals take care of it or weld the perches on after they've done the dirty work. It's easy enough for someone to do themselves that I try not to get involved with that end. Not to mention Steve does excellent work and has the patience for it.(I pretty much just do 8611/8610 setups)

Financially I think it's within $100 for the RM/Hyperco vs. GC setup. So I think that's a negligible difference imo. (plus the additonal work to weld perches onto the housings)

The Hyperco's are softer over broken pavement/railroad tracks and things like that, but the GC even with the 440/400 are never harsh. After coming back from out drives, the other person commented that if he hadn't known they were 400+ lb springs he would've assumed they were 300.

As far as which avenues would benefit most from the change...road race, autox, and street in that order. I think anyone could easily feel the difference between them, yes Shawn...that includes you Mr. Brittle Bones.

Chassis differences:

My chassis has NEVER been in ANY acccident whatsoever and is therefore perfect.

Bryan's chassis has been rearended at one time, but was fixed and comes out true on a chassis rack. (Beam was replaced even)

I think the sway bars play the smallest role in changes between the two mostly because it's definately a spring difference you are feeling between them in transitions. I feel that a progressive spring is a little more vague by nature, and prefer linear springs for everything. (at least that I've come acrossed so far) I have yet to drive a set of Road Magnet's but will have to drive Ben's (Benito Malito) car before he swaps them back out for the Hyperco.

Hyperco/Road Magnets are still going to be the best springs for the money when it comes to a stock based strut that retains the factory perch. If you are going to go that route, then you are short changing yourself anyway.

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happynole

I'm going to throw a curve in here for the Right Reverend Veilside. By the time you have the work done on a Koni/GC setup, It looks like you are within a couple hundred dollars of getting a set of Progress Coilovers. I have those on my NX and I have a set with the higher spring rates (Dan Gardner setup) for my classic that is under construction. I paid full price for the standard set and picked the Dan Gardner setup for a grand from another forum member. So I am averaging just under $1200 shipped for both sets.

I have 1 more NX to setup sometime in the near future. Would you recommend the Progress setup over other options in the $1300-1500 range?

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Benito Malito

I've looked into getting a progress set-up and if they can get them for you in a reasonable amount of time (thats a big IF) they still aren't as good. I've asked VS about this before. Put it this way; VS's rig has the basic Koni/GC setup.

For me if and when I sell the RM springs I'll have made about $100 out of my suspension since I bought the car. Thats good because its been an expensive year for Fasty.

veilside180sx

I'd be running a 8610 F/R setup getting up closer to $1500 personally. They are still single adjustable, but are digressive and handle higher rates. If not that I'd at least run 8610/8611 Front with a yellow rear.

The Dan Gardner valving is decent enough for the money, but requires you to manage any other adjustments by sway bar and alignments.

gregman_1

I was totally joking. Good to see you guys can balance a sense of humor with tact, it's a rare combo.

Shawn B

Aha....another educated gentlemen that prefers the Hyperco's, and stated the reasons why.

I am thinking, that for me, the ultimate set-up will be my existing suspension as is, deleting (selling) the AGX's and upgrading to the CSK's. That is about as far as I will ever take it. Your comments go along with my goals. A very comfy ride, combined with much, much better performance than stock.

Would it satisfy veilside? Mike Kojima? 98sr20ve (Steve)? Maybe not, not "precise" enough, it is a "compromise inherent" spring/strut set-up. But for Mr. Joe Average enthusiast driver (me), zipping and commuting around Houston, it should be superb, and more than I will ever be able to really push on public roads anyways.

I have no doubts about that whatsoever.

Please have veilside give your vehicle a ride before you swap out the RM's. I'd love to hear his feedback on the other SR20 Forum Exclusive linear rate springs.

To nitpick a bit, the price has to be an extra hundred for the Hyperco's over the RM's. Just looking at the spring price itself. Plus the additional work, there is a price on that for us non-welding types. Or, for the completely mechanically inept (yours truley), paying someone to build the CSK's. Easy or not, I'd be waaaay more comfortable having Mr. Steve build me a set, perches in place, ready to bolt-on.

I'd probably sacrifice a bit of "mushiness or dead-accurate turn-in" for the extra comfort. My chances of road racing? Slim and none. Autocrossing? Not much better chances. Daily driver for me. And quite frankly, the AGX/Hyperco set-up (will all the trimmings) already impresses the crap out my relatively ignorant self.

I do not doubt that whatsover.

I fall into the last category only, street. As do many of our "less serious" enthusiasts on this site. Not to say there are not plenty of you guys that do in fact autocross or road race. But lots of us other folks, that are indeed enthusiasts, just want a solid, no bulls*t suspension. I just a bit more interested in ultimate comfort, a high quality street suspension. Gaining that last nth degree of precision, might be a bit overboard for my performance expectations.

Ya' picky bastard!

Very experienced, very suspension educated, and very selective about your preferences.

Please do so, I would love to hear your expert assessment of the RM's vs. Hypercos.

That bolded statement is what I was trying to pin you down on. I don't want folks thinking that the RM's or Hyperco's are less than excellent, properly designed, well engineered, conventional springs for our cars.

Are they an "ideal set-up" for you guys with higher budgets, road racing in mind, or that are uber-picky? Nope. But they damn sure are a dead solid choice for a more budget oriented, daily driver, autocross kind of enthusiast.

I was sooooo hoping you were in fact joking.

And as for balancing a sense of humor with tact, I am not very proficient at either of those personality traits. I am usually uncouth, abrupt, impatient, arguementative, uncivilized, rude, ornery, rather barbaric and lacking in most social graces. Futher, when folks respond negatively to my sometimes blistering posts (not that I blame them), I usually escalate the matter.

However, I will gladly accept your compliment that I managed to pull off both tact and humor in my post addressing your questions. I am making progress, and perhaps there is hope for me yet.