Scca_Ev

<steps up on soap box>

Lighten up wes. Not everyone has the wallet to spend $2500+ on a suspension for their vehicle. Nor does everyone need a full race suspension set up for their daily driver.

While I appreciate your suggestion on Koni's, as you are in line with what many others have said (ShawnB for example), and just as many found in actual use, your delivery is quite brash. You remind me of many camera sales people. Unless the body costs $1500, and the lens costs $800+ dollars, it's not worth buying. Your elitist bias and need to belittle those who don't choose your brand of shock adds nothing to this discussion. Many will ignore your suggestion simply based on your presentation. Just think about people you know who insist their way is better, and nothing else is even worth consideration. Bet you know someone like that, and I am confident I know your opinion of them.

Koni's may be the best set up, but I will say again, installing the Megan's and using the $1600 savings on track time (8 events by my count) will do more to improve my driving than any modification I could make, including your preferred set up.

My guess is, these coil overs will get me through the next year and I will be faster than "better prepared" cars when I go W2W, because I spent my money where it counts, on track time. Why do you think in the picture above I am in front of 2 BMW's, a Golf GTI and a Corvette? It's not because my car has more power, bigger tires or better brakes. It's because I have more track time than them, and drive better.

Pop a chill pill, and come to the thread in a helpful and open mind set. Your opinion will be far better respected.

<off soap box>

__________________
Enjoy,
Bill
www.half-fastmotorsports.com

 

derosa4

Very well said....nice to read an eloquent post once in a while.
I too am weary of the Suspension Snobs smoting down anybody not wearing Konis.
Its quite tiresome. Koni Koni Koni.....
A one off design, limited production set-up (Shocktec, the Bilstein based coilover, comes to mind as just ONE example) will probably smoke any of the best Koni set-ups described on these pages, but....where does it end??$$$ Oh look, now I can't afford gas... DOH!

Track time is an often overlooked suspension piece...can you do anything with what you've got? If you jumped in a '74 Valiant-leaf springs and all- and ran around the track with those cars, how would you do?
I bet you would do pretty well.

Whatever you do, remember this is supposed to fun, or at least a great experience...don't spend yourself out of that mindset. Buy the best you can afford and run the hell out of it.

The photo of you spanking a quarter of a million $$ worth of cars through that corner was priceless!

__________________
"Somewhat" modified '93NX2K-distilling sweet balm from the vast bitterness....

TeKKiE

I know where you're coming from, but that's the way of the world. Many are more easily swayed on someone's impression of a product, than anything else. The average driver that does the occasional track day, cares more about the way they feel, than what numbers show. Track junkies even still, in my opinion, care more about the experience with the product, than just numbers on a piece of paper.

I also recall stating the above. It's HIGHLY possible that the MR coilover system is better suited on our chassis, than it was on various Honda platforms.

For instance, I run with the AGX/RM setup, and I didn't need numbers to tell me that they were going to be awesome. Couple it with the Cusco FSTB and I absolutely love the cornering ability, as well as the ride comfort.

Is it the best? Obviously not. Does it work for me, and what I want the car to be able to do? HELL yes.

__________________
SR20DEEP in TX

Scca_Ev

Thank you for the kind words.

I was talking to a friend who used to race. The advise I was given, and in my mind it was gold was, go with the Megan's, poly bushings and a stout swaybar. Tune it for all it's worth, and when your skills improve beyond the suspension, then and only then consider an upgrade.

Having driven the car in show room stock trim once, I can say that the Megans are a vast improvement over a AGX/stock spring combo (according to my butt suspension dyno), but as mentioned, I only had 5 laps of testing.

BTW, that shot was taken half way through lap 2, by lap 4 I had 10 seconds lead on the next car behind me and I had lots of speed left. I was slowly picking up speed so I could see where I started to feel the limits being approached.

I could go on and on about how great it felt, but I will post an update after the engine change and next track day.

I plan on posting a video on you tube after I get it pulled off the GF's camera.

Scca_Ev

Well said..

derosa4

"Tune it for all it's worth, and when your skills improve beyond the suspension, then and only then consider an upgrade."
Words of wisdom.

If your skills improve enough, perhaps you'll then have a sponsor to buy you a set of those Holy Konis.

b14fab

Got my set of megan coils in the mail.....was impressed by the ride in my friends s13. Can't go wrong with the price, and besides majority of people on this forum (like me) don't track their car often enough for it to be worth spending so much money on any other setup.

__________________
Fabian - Black 98 SE-R - Soon to be juiced!!

wes

I am not trying to come accross as an elitist that only believes in one brand. If I do then I need to work on my delivery.

At any rate all I am saying is that for the similar money you can have a better setup. Most of the Koni setups are very reasonably priced and provide some of the best bang for the buck out there. I am not shouting from the rooftops that unless you are running the bits and pieces custom 8611 setup you have crap, just offering insight that much of what people are buying as an upgrade is not as good as something that is similarly priced.

What did you pay for the Megan setup?

__________________
my site

Scca_Ev

I paid $1100 for the coilovers and a Progress front bar shipped. I think it was $895 for
coils plus shipping.

Sorry for being so rough, but I am just a little miffed about the bias towards Koni setups. It's funny that there are comments like "No company on earth develops (produces in-house) 1,000 "new" products in five (5) years" when the Koni set up is a cobbled together setup that was never "developed" for our cars. Granted, it appears to be a good system, but it was not, and I repeat not custom created for a Nissan.

I am still guessing these Megans aren't bad for the money. I may be proven wrong, and if so will fess up..

wes

The price points are similar, a koni setup can be had for not much more if you shop right. Again that does not mean you should buy it, but rather they are similarly priced. I am not trying to say that everyone should run a Koni setup, everyone shold do what makes them happy. My point is that before anyone spends their $ and the start researching, I want people to see impressions based on experience and data.

I will say that even though the koni pieces are inserts and not bolt in affairs, they are truly meant to be on each particular application. I will also stand by Koni's quality control and tolerances over their Japanese counterparts. This is why I recommend them so often. I have owned 3 different suspension setups and have driven or installed B13's and B14's with nearly all of the common setups discussed on this board and for the $ I went with Koni.

Shawn B

Keep in mind, I am a student of our suspensions. Very well read, and perhaps book knowledgable. I have repeatedly denied any true expertise on pretty much anything mechanical related to our vehicles.

However, my opinions and recommendations are based on those of folks with true expertise. The CSK's are much touted and praised by folks like Mike Kojima (Choaderboy2), veilside180sx and Steve (98sr20ve), along with a slew of very, very, knowledgable no-bulls*t suspension experts.

I did not read Wes's opinion in that manner. The drawbacks of discussions on forums is the inability to read body language, inflection, and tone of voice. Sometimes folks mis-read others intents.

I think you are overstating the expense involved in a set of CSK's with the GC sleeves, or CSK's with RM's or Hyperco's. Not that it would not be more expensive than the Megans, just not $1,600 more expensive.

The pilot is the most important factor in any vehicle.

Agreed on the eloquence of SCCA_ev. Bill has a way with words.

However, while I preach the Koni's (based on the experts quoted in the Suspension Thread) I am no snob about it whatsoever.

I own AGX, Hyperco, Koni bumps, Progress RSB, OEM FSB, Cusco FSTB, AT RSTB, Superpro caster bushings, OEM dustboots, B14 wheels and ES100 tires. Nothing too fancy, but well thought out, a significant improvement over stock, and more suspension that I will ever need for a daily driver.

I am also under no illusions that swapping out to CSK's would in fact provide an extra inch of travel (back to OEM), and what is reported by every knowledgable person as a very noticable improvement over the AGX's in terms of smoothness.

No it will not. The Shocktek system (no longer available) was a Shortened Strut housing, loaded with Bilstien or Koni guts (depending on which magazine article you read). Shocktek also used a "threaded collar coilover" with Eibach race series springs. I firmly believe that "threaded collar coilover" was in fact a GC threaded collar.

IE...The Shocktek system is pretty much the exact same thing as a CSK/GC sleeve set-up.

Agreed. That is exactly what I did. Bought the very best I could (barely) afford, light-years better than stock, and drive the piss out of it. Is it perfect? Nope. Would it be reportedly (by true experts) better with CSK's? Absolutley. Is the extra money to upgrade to CSK's from the AGX's worth it to me, the humble DD vehicle that never sees any track-time whatsoever? Maybe, maybe not.

I LOVE my basic but very workable suspension set-up as it is. However if/when the AGX's die, or I run into a more solvent financial situation, the CSK's will replace the AGX's.

Ditto. And our only differences are rather minor.

Keep in mind where that bias comes from, folks with serious, no-bullsh*t, true expertise. Veilside180sx, Choaderboy2, and 98sr20ve. Three of the most knowledgable suspension guru's on our forum.

Also, every single serious suspension for our vehicles is in fact based on a shortened strut. Including the previously mentioned Shocktek's. Shigspeed, Bits and Peices, Progress, etc...ALL use a shortened strut. Travel being the issue, something we have in very short supply.

Dead nuts accurate and I stand by that statement. Not a condemnation, but Megan is NOT building their coilovers in-house, from R&D, to machining all the parts, to assembling the product. No way, no how.

You say "cobbled together", I say engineered from pre-existing GC sleeves, Eibach race springs, and the requisite shortened strut body. There was plenty of testing, real world on the race track, of this set-up by folks like Steve and Mike K.

I would agree with your assessment.

This thread was not designed as a "CSK vs. Megan" thread. It's intention is to get real-world feedback from reasonably knowledgeable folks that are putting the product through it's paces. Folks like you.

Enough feedback to provide some insight into the product, to help other folks make informed decisions with reasonable expectations about what to expect when buying the product.

And...my schedule is finally letting up. The last several months have been overtly interesting* for me in my personal life, and a Suspension Thread Update is overdue.

*"May you be cursed to live in interesting times." Author Unknown.

I'd rather have an intelligent discussion thread to reference concerning the Megan addition, as opposed to no information other than the existence of the product itself.

__________________
2004 Tahoe, stock and fully loaded.
'93 Classic - R.I.P. 2007 My mechanical companion. Operation Resuscitation underway....

* The best offense is a good psychosis. *

veilside180sx

To throw in 2 cents as far as Koni pricing goes...

Custom housings ($375/pair)
8610 inserts x 2 ($335 shipped, what I paid for the last pair i ordered)
B14 rears are around 100/ea iirc
GC kit 400

Totals up to $1310. That is for a far superior setup, including custom housings.

Your average CSK setup is cheaper.

A large Koni distributor will sell you a GC and 4 Koni's for the B14 for less than $850. A little bit of quick fab work, and you are ready to go. I don't see how that is prohibitively expensive.

The adjustable lower mount on a Sentra is a joke, because you can't allow the strut tube to protrude from the bottom of the mount due to the axle being so close.

Throw in a set of camber plates (pick one as there are quite a few options with a myriad of prices)

I have driven/helped setup probably 10 different cars with the Megan setup, and never been impressed. If it works for you, great. There is definately something to be said for investing money in the driver though.

__________________
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Koni www.koni-na.com
www.nissanroadracing.com

Scca_Ev

Ah!! I now see a slight error in my math. For what ever reason I thought the custom housings were $375 a peice. My math also included the custom housings for the rear to allow the 8611's there too, and the camber plates up front.

So the way I see it, you would add another $375 for the rear housings, another pair of 8611's, then $400 for camber plates and we are up to about $2000 give or take. This is still a hefty chunk to put toward suspension.

Wes, Shawn, Steve and others, let me again offer my apologies for any "tude" coming through my posts. I am new to the Nissan world, and have read till I am blue in the face all the recommendations. That is the reason I didn't go with the Ksports. The limited info on the Megans has been far more positive, so I took a chance. As a matter of fact, this very thread was the reason I decided to try them. I am not one of the experts Shawn was looking for, but I knew I could provide some useful input once I got everything dialed in.

I am convinced that the Koni's ARE the setup (CSK's or 8611), but even the non 8611 version (B15 yellows all around) would have been far more than I paid for the Megan's. The additional time necessary for install was also a factor. I think the deal breaker was the camber plates. Otherwise, you could likely do the GC/B15 coils for close to the same price (if you can do the install on your own).

I hope to get it back out on the track in Aug. I now have to replace the engine, so I am off on another adventure of trying to find out what's different between my 96 engine and the JDM low ports. I plan on racing this car in SCCA and don't want to break the rules. If I can get that all sorted out, and the engine installed, I will post an after action report in a few months.