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Any constructive ideas on how to correct camber change angles?
For those that don't know lowering a car changes the way a suspension operates. What I am looking for is a way to correct camber change from positive under compression to negative under compression increasing corner grip. The tech--- draw a line from the center of the strut shaft through the center of the ball joint, then another line from the inner pivot of the lower control arm through the ball joint. Then measure the angle between these lines. if the angle is 90 degrees or more then under suspension compression the suspension will gain positive camber. The opposite is also true, if the angle measured is less than 90 degrees then the suspension will gain negative camber, and that is where we should be. What i am looking for is simple creatively constructive ideas to solve this problem. I will somehow fix this problem and i do have fabrication skills/tools. The only feasible way would be to somehow lower the ball joint 1.5-2 inches (space permitting) and/or strut tower mod to allow an increase in the strut angle. Those are my "rough" ideas.
Last edited by companyman95; 01-29-2009 at 03:35 AM.
Reason: backwards wording
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My first lover - 1991 NX2000: Rattle Can Army green n' black. (10:1 De+t Avn. setup. open dp. hypercoil springs. FSTB. RSTB. harness bar.) Made it into Project Car tuner mag!
Current lover - 1990 240sx Coupe: Rattle Can Almond white. (Tein coilovers, 16x8/9 Autostrada Modena's. 17x7 axxis drift spares. 6pt autopower roll bar. SS brake lines. Nismo 2way. Corbeau Forza. NRG camlock)
Please read the whole thread. all of the info is there....If the lower control arm is less than 90 degrees in relation to the centerline of the strut through the balljoint then camber will increase in the inward (negative) direction...which is how the car comes from the factory (lowering the vehicle changes this relationship of angles) and is beneficial to performance. Some ideas that have crossed my mind were to fab some sort of rod end ball joint spacer as i have not seen any roll center adjuster ball joints for the B13. Possibly changing the mounting points for the lower control arm (very labor intensive and costly) Or perhaps modifying the strut tower itself, which can be done to give more camber adjustability or no change at all. Just a few ideas....i am looking for input from those who are capable in suspension design and modification ONLY.
This is simple.......1st you must not have read the WHOLE thread, because you would have understood how camber change works because i had explained it. 2nd my statement about certain people ONLY was not directed at YOU, I am just stating what i am looking for.....but to the many who might chime in with something Billy Ray told his siter about how this works. 3rd if you were to take into account BODY ROLL in a corner then you would see how positive camber change would be un wanted. So..... If you were in a basically stock B13 with the exception of say 1.5 inch lower springs, and took a turn at speed the weight would be transfered to the outside....now with positive camber change, the inside of the tire would lift to a degree depending on many variables...but with negative camber change (weight still pushing outside) the inside would be planted and there will be more available contact patch overall....no performance street car is designed with positive camber change....not even stock b13s....so....i have made changes to my b13 by lowering it, and now i want to correct the issues it has caused with the geometry and this is simple...next i will tahe a look at bump steer corrections...as this changes with suspension alteration. I am making no effort to be an "asshat" just factual and efficient as always. That being said if i left something unexplained then by all means ask......i have no problem with sharing knowledge with others.....
Last edited by companyman95; 01-29-2009 at 03:38 AM.
You are correct about 1 thing only...i typed 2 words backwards...simple mistake...but you sir know little about design let alone operation of a suspension sys. Camber change can be a problem for double wishbone multi-link etc......it is just measured differently.
Camber plates will not add enough correction needed....The more i look at the setup the more it looks like a drop balljoint/rodend like the drift guys do will be the easiest way to make this work. The amount of adjustment needed appears to be in the range of 10-15 degrees (just eyeballing it) I understand that you (bluebomber) are something of a fabricator. I an looking at some sort of fixture that would simply put make the balljoint shaft about 1.5-2 inches longer...this should accomplish a relative angle of less than 90 degrees.
As for you Mr budget. Congratulations on your acquired ASE.....as they are not easy tests to take and you need to have at least 2 years of verifyable experience to get to the patch...I went for 8 with over 8 years of experience (wait dosen't that make a MASTER) I have my golden tool box...along with the SCOPE Seniior specialist from NISSAN ........BUT all of this means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING as these certifications mean nothing as they do not cover MODIFYING OR DESIGN so they do not apply HERE...Iam however well on my way to a degree in mechanical engineering......(which is applicable)
Im actually not a fabricator but the design engineer here.
I say we keep this constructive, maybe there is something we can all learn here.
BTW what is the reason for your car? Autocross, DD? How low did you go on the drop?
Quote:
Originally Posted by companyman95
Camber plates will not add enough correction needed....The more i look at the setup the more it looks like a drop balljoint/rodend like the drift guys do will be the easiest way to make this work. The amount of adjustment needed appears to be in the range of 10-15 degrees (just eyeballing it) I understand that you (bluebomber) are something of a fabricator. I an looking at some sort of fixture that would simply put make the balljoint shaft about 1.5-2 inches longer...this should accomplish a relative angle of less than 90 degrees.
As for you Mr budget. Congratulations on your acquired ASE.....as they are not easy tests to take and you need to have at least 2 years of verifyable experience to get to the patch...I went for 8 with over 8 years of experience (wait dosen't that make a MASTER) I have my golden tool box...along with the SCOPE Seniior specialist from NISSAN ........BUT all of this means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING as these certifications mean nothing as they do not cover MODIFYING OR DESIGN so they do not apply HERE...Iam however well on my way to a degree in mechanical engineering......(which is applicable)
Last edited by bluebomber; 01-29-2009 at 10:04 PM.
I can make a drawing of what i think will work best. My car is a daily driver and once suitable for it....autocross but i'm pretty particular about what needs to be done
Overly simplified but with the installation of a rod end instead of a ball joint would give 2 more ways to adjust the suspension i believe this can be done as the balljoint does not support weight just locates the strut so minimal structural concern here as opposed to a laden ball joint but a little over engineering would not hurt....the only hurdle here is the taper of the ball joint shaft and the selection of the bolt for the shaft.
And buy a set of camber plates from me! and looking at the pics ... a CAI
You know there are a lot of guys out there pulling close to 1G without all of this. Stiffening up the suspension with bars, coilovers, sway bars etc it probably more than enough. Just my opinion, but if you want to try it thats cool
Last edited by bluebomber; 01-30-2009 at 10:27 PM.
I will not stop until i achieve over 1.0G AND a correct suspension geometry...as i want to be above par with the new Z....as it is my performance benchmark which i think is easily attainable (if I do my homework) And thankyou for that link as i believe that i have found the end i'm looking for....i will do this when i do my Z32 brake upgrade when i get my tax money.
On more than one occasion I have discussed this as a way to reduce the amount of bump-steer plaguing our cars. However the discussion was about the relationship between the tie-rod and the control arm. Octotats bump-steer kit is step one for the cure. Chopping off the ball-joint and welding in a beefy rod-end with a machined high grade bolt would work. Mike Kojima did this I believe.
Last edited by featherweight13; 01-31-2009 at 12:13 AM.
AHH yes the enlightened one...........Mike Kojima....i have read a lot of his posts and he is definately an authority perhaps he'll put in 2 cents....And thank you for yours!
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