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To ES bush or not to ES bush+other susp questions.
I am picking up some Hypercoils and KYBs with very low mileage. I was advised I need to get some tower braces (front and back) and progress adj anti-roll bars.
Questions...
1. I have ES bushings (uninstalled), but I am not sure I want to hassle with the install. Are they really worth the hassle? I gather there is a pretty good chance your suspension will be a squeeker when they are installed (although I have it on top authority that it can be done right).
What terrifies me, is having a local (middle Georgia) shop install these things. I don't know of anyone who really knows what they are doing. Should I go to the Nissan shop and get some new factory bushings installed?
2. Since the Hypercoils and the KYBs will be pre-assembled, what parts will I need for the install. I did a stock strut install a year or so ago, and I seem ro remember a few gaskets, but not much else. Is this pretty much a bolt-in affair?
3. Where do you recommend I get the Progress sways cheap(est)?
4. Where can I get the stb cheap(est)?
__________________
Under the spreading chestnut tree
I sold you and you sold me
There lie they, and here lie we
Under the spreading chestnut tree
Front ES are fine. Rears on a B13 are not worth it IMHO. They bind and just are a pita. If you are willing to deal with greasing them regularly and don't install the forward control link then they are ok. I have been taking the ES off my 240 and installing sperical bearings. They are more comfortable then the ES bushings and not nearly the hassel.
Front ES are fine. Rears on a B13 are not worth it IMHO. They bind and just are a pita. If you are willing to deal with greasing them regularly and don't install the forward control link then they are ok. I have been taking the ES off my 240 and installing sperical bearings. They are more comfortable then the ES bushings and not nearly the hassel.
I beat you to it....
Does this mean I am getting smarter, or just becoming a parrot?
It means we're all learning - - a good thing in any book. Most of us have a ways to go to catch up with Steve on suspension all told, I suspect.
__________________
'93 B13, etc.
If you don't have the patience
to do it right the first time,
how is it you have the time to
do it over and over again?
I've had the entire ES Hypflex Kit installed (all the rears too) for five years and I have not had the binding issues that others on this forum describe. I've noticed that many who advocate against the installation of ES bushings, especially in the rear foward link live in areas that have harsh winter environments (i.e. snow/frost/salty roads). I live in San Jose, CA so my car isn't exposed to those types of conditions.
In previous threads on the subject, some have mentioned that the Black ES bushings are graphite impregnated, whereas the RED bushings are not. The graphite is supposed to assist with the lubrication of the bushings once installed. I don't know if it works or not, but my set and all of the sets I've helped to install have been black too. One of those installs was on Andrew Phan's SE-R (a car that is frequently tracked). I haven't heard of binding issues from him (Andy, if you read this, please chime in).
Are the issues with rear ES bushing binding due to the effects of winter environments on the car's undercarriage or might it be using RED instead of Black bushings? Just expressing my personal experiences, especially since they differ from what is becoming fast becoming gospel on this forum.
__________________ aztecred92
L I V E S T R O N G
'92 SE-R
'85 MR2
i got the full master kit on my car with no troubles and had it in for about a half year now and i teamed it up with a ebay front strut bar and a active tuneing rear bar and progress sway bars front and rear on oem springs and kyb gr2 struts
my only issue right now is when i put in the sway bars and go over bumps i get a little thumping noise, im not sure if its just the bars because they clear everything, i think it could be the struts are just not strong with the oem springs with the rest of my suspention setup
i might be getting ksports
I paid a friend of mine $100 to install the full es kit and the kyb struts at the nissan dealership LOL
One of those installs was on Andrew Phan's SE-R (a car that is frequently tracked). I haven't heard of binding issues from him (Andy, if you read this, please chime in).
No known binding issues here, either... And it's been about two years since the bushings have been installed. I've had others drive my car at track events and autocrosses, and they say the car handles beautifully (I just have GC/AGX as my coilover setup.)
__________________
--ATP
2007 Mazdaspeed 3
"Money is something you need in case you don't die tomorrow."
new bushings are one the best things we can to our old ass (yet oh so sweet) cars. the first time i did it was a pain. i didnt finish in one night. however i installed some bushings in another car a couple weeks ago and it only took me a few minutes a bushing. the difference was i didnt use the socket trick. i torched the bushing out, i sharpened an old screw driver, cut straight down the metal sleeve with the screwdriver and a mallet. trick is to hammer the screw driver inbetween the sleeve and the control arm first, so it "peels" part of the sleeve first. then then turn the screw driver perpendicular so it cuts straight down the sleeve.
Trust me, you have binding issues. If you take the struts off the car and try to move the rears suspension arms with the es installed you will have a tough time doing it. Especially with the forward link installed. Try it you'll see. Then try with the oem bushings and then throw in even some sperical bearings. HUGE difference.
I never had any binding issues either on my Tsuru. I used way too much grease on the install and lubed the ends also. I tested the full range of motion on the lift without swaybar and struts installed to see. I had the reds ones and live in lower Alabama and Orlando, Fl, so I never had harsh environments to deal with. The guy who owns it now hasn't had any negative side effects other than a somewhat stiffer ride with Eibachs and AGXs (go figure)
__________________ 1982 Toyota Starlet with Starion turbo swap STOLEN!! 1986 300ZX Turbo with 87k miles 1991 Nissan Tsuru GSR2000 with UK SR20DE IT'S BACK!!!! 1992 Eclipse GS-X 325 hp SOLD 1993 NX2000 SOLD!
I never had any binding issues either on my Tsuru. I used way too much grease on the install and lubed the ends also. I tested the full range of motion on the lift without swaybar and struts installed to see. I had the reds ones and live in lower Alabama and Orlando, Fl, so I never had harsh environments to deal with. The guy who owns it now hasn't had any negative side effects other than a somewhat stiffer ride with Eibachs and AGXs (go figure)
Thats impossible. The oem design has binding in it. To say you have none is just not possible. ES bushing just make it worse. It's a matter of degree.
Key is to NOT do the forward link and lube the crap out of the rest. All you need to do to see that it will bind is look at the oem bushings and the ES bushings. Then look at the way the rear suspension wants to move. You have two parallel links that want to move straight up and down. Then you have the forward link that want to pull those links forward as the suspension compresses. The OEM bushing in the parallel arms allow this to happen better because they only touch the chassis in a very small area. So as it moves forward the rubber just has to deflect over the entire bushing area to allow this to happen. ES bushings are stiffer (so they want to move less) but they also are captured by the chassis and hit the chassis. This makes it more difficult for the bushing to deflect and allow this movement. Then the forward link is freaking horrible. It’s huge with lots of surface area touching the frame. Less likely to slide as a result. Replace any end of the parallel links with a spherical bearing and the entire setup will move forward easily. Just take a look at the setup and you can see what I am talking about.
My uneducated opinion. Get good stuff. AT RSTB, Progress rear sway, Cusco front stb, and a whiteline or progress lower front tie bar. Front sway bar stays stock.
ES bushings are necessary for the front sway bar and shifter bushing.
Control arm bushings are a pita, but worth it. This will make your car more darty, and it will follow ruts on the highway. For me this was ok, and helps eliminate slop at track events.
The rear is best left alone for bushings, although I could use a bit ore stiffness. Its probably just my driving. I need to work on my driving before I can complain more.
There he goes one of gods own prototypes. A high powered mutant of some kind not even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die
Guys, whether you know it or not 98 knows more about these suspensions than most of us put together. He builds the damned things. If the man says it binds, it does. If you put one together like he says not to, put your ego in a closet and change it.
I am not trying to set myself up as a not it all. Shoot even with all I knew about binding issues on the b13, I still put ES bushings all the way around on my S13. Low and behold car got stiff as a board in the back due to the same reason as it does (but to a lesser degree) on the B13. The front link moves in a arc and the L/R links move in a arc but in a different direction. Hence the bind. On the s13 you have triple the links and as a result a ton more friction and a ton more arcs all competing with eachother. This is not a unique problem to the Nissan. Honda's have the same issues if you use all the pieces. Pick and choose and it's not as bad. I still have some ES stuff on my S13. Paired with the Sperical bearings and the grease fittings on the ES stuff that I installed and they work just fine. I am going to get rid of the one on the front eventually but the rest will likely stay just as they are.
