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Thank you Chriscar, but I only half-assed even know what most of that diagram shows.
I was going to buy the ES Complete Master Bushing Kit #718104G from gofastdepot.com (Serban). Which includes:
- 28mm front & 15mm rear sway bar bushings
- Front and rear control arm bushings
- Front and rear sway bar bushings
- transmission shifter stabilizer bushings
- tie rod end boots
However, I already have:
- Prothane motor and tranny mounts (all four)
- ES shifter bushing
- I am buying a Progress rear sway bar with hiem (heim?) link ends in the Group Buy through Toolapcfan.
Therefore I looked at the following two ES kits.
Energy Suspension Bushings #73109G, which is the Control Arm Bushings.
AND
Energy Suspension Bushings #75115R, which is the Front Sway Bar and End Link Bushings.
Don't know why that leads to clutches......aaaaargh. Go to that page, type "energy suspension" into the search engine, and it will pull up the page I am referrring to. WHY the ES link from that site will NOT copy and paste and lead you directly to the ES page is beyond me?
I am trying to figure out if that is all the ES bushings I will need to completely replace all the rubber bushings with ES units.
I am clueless and spent a few hours yesterday trying to figure out what to purchase.
Any help would be appreciated. Finishing my suspension is my early X-mas present to myself.
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2004 Tahoe, stock and fully loaded.
'93 Classic - Repaired yet? No, currently being restored. Parts up to my eyeballs.
http://www.gofastdepot.com/mySearchResult.cfm?parentcategoryid=&productID=174 98&showDetail=1&categoryID=0|&vendoridtodisplay=0& filterFor=sentra&collection=
thats the one you need however i had a b14 so i dont know about *** the rears are supposed to look like i know that i see something close to the fronts there so it should be a correct pic
we found a real easy way to get the old bushing and sleeve out of the front control arm that took like 5 min top only we didnt figure that out till the second one pm me if you need any help
http://www.gofastdepot.com/mySearchResult.cfm?parentcategoryid=&productID=174 98&showDetail=1&categoryID=0|&vendoridtodisplay=0& filterFor=sentra&collection=
thats the one you need however i had a b14 so i dont know about *** the rears are supposed to look like i know that i see something close to the fronts there so it should be a correct pic
we found a real easy way to get the old bushing and sleeve out of the front control arm that took like 5 min top only we didnt figure that out till the second one pm me if you need any help
Linky no worky.
That is what happened when I tried to cut-n-paste the link to the exact page.
I am not doing this work myself. I have an excellent local mechanic/shop that I have used for over a decade.
I want to bring him ALL the upgrade parts, have him install them and replace any OEM bits that need replacing as he is transforming my suspension.
You do relize that you really don't want to replace every control arm busing in the rear with ES bushing. Leave the trailing link one alone. Don't do es on that. Search around the site about suspension bind and you will find the info.
You do relize that you really don't want to replace every control arm busing in the rear with ES bushing. Leave the trailing link one alone. Don't do es on that. Search around the site about suspension bind and you will find the info.
Damn, I even read those threads. Kind of forgot, thanks for the reminder. This is what Steve is talking about....
You do relize that you really don't want to replace every control arm busing in the rear with ES bushing. Leave the trailing link one alone. Don't do es on that. Search around the site about suspension bind and you will find the info.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98sr20ve from thread above
They don't have to squeek to cause the problems. If they are frozen in place they are silent. Mine never made a single sound. The change happens so gradually that many people don't notice it. The front of the Sentra is really not so bad. It only has two es bushings and I never had an issue with them. Rear of a B13 is different. Many people say to never use the one for the locating arm as it causes the suspension to bind. Rear of a 240 is a nightmare. If you use all the es bushings it will suck. The suspension is a multi link with toe and camber changes as the suspension moves. This is by design. Problem is the ES bushings cause that setup to become so rigid that the suspension does not want to move. The easy fix is to simple not use the ES stuff in the back. Or pick and choice which ones would be most helpfull. I did not know this (because no one talks about this) and quickly found out the hard way. Then the best option is to use spherical arms that allow the suspension to follow its desired arc. This combined with properly lubed bushings solves the issue. B13 would benefit from some similar thinking. The rear has two parallel arms that want to move up and down. The locating arm moves in a arc, pulling those two arms forward when the suspension compresses. This changes toe but with the rigid ES bushings also causes bind. That’s why many people choose not to install the ES bushing in this arm.
So to wrap up. The front on a Sentra is not so bad even with the ES bushings. Rear of the B13 can be a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnand
There was a thread that I posted a while back about the rear suspension bind and the consensous was the trailing arm frame bushing should remain rubber as it need to move fore and aft.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaritbartfast
Trailing arm is indeed the culprit. You must leave rubber on one end to allow the arm to move fore/aft as hub moves up/down.
I re-read the threads above. It appears that Zerk grease fittings and milling the inside of all of the bushing with a cross-hatch pattern (ala Johnand) would be best. However, that is beyond my limited expertise and sounds very time-consuming (expensive) to have done.
Is that your recommendation Steve? Do them all except for the trailing link arm? Is the "trailing arm" the same as the "locating arm" per your statements? Is that the only one that will cause the binding issue? Or are you referring to two different arms? (My ignorance is boundless. )
Replacing the trailing link arm bushings with new OEM rubber bushings apparently will not work, because Johnand states that they are not available. I could double check with Mossy, but Johnand seems to know his stuff.
I would assume that all the bushings on the car are pretty road-weary. 160K+ miles of use and abuse.
What is your specific ES bushing recommendation for a daily-driver? Just do the front and leave the back entirely alone? Just leave those rear "trailing arm/locating arm" bushings alone and do all the rest of the rear bushings with ES?
The more I learn, the more confused I become. Damn.
I knew I could count on you to read those threads and type the "cliff notes" for us. I was too lazy today to read those threads provided by Steve.
What am I, predictable? LOL.
And Steve did not provide the links, sir.
However, he brought up the "suspension bind" issue. Damn, I think he done told me to search. ......
I want to see what Steve has to say, but it appears that if you are willing to put up with squeeks, the only major ES problem area is that rear "trailing arm." Apparently that one needs to be left OEM rubber.
I only have the ES MM,TM, Shifter Bushing's and they work well. I have no complaint's about or with them. Now IMHO I would buy the master kit and sell off the one's you don't need.
First, I think using grease fittings on the es bushings is a great idea. I know other B13'ers have done it and it is not that hard. ES bushings have a ton more surface area then the oem bushings and tend to not want to slide which causes an increase in friction which seems to the driver to feel like a increase in spring rate. People think thats good but the issue is it's not consistent. It ramps up then falls away. Or it varies from side to side. Just because something feels tight in the way it rides does not mean it's good. So, The best thing to do is make sure they are greased and greased well. Grease fittings only requier you to drill a hole thru the arm and the es bushing (but not the metal sleeve). Thats not hard. Then you tap the arm and install the grease fitting. If you are lucky the grease fitting will not go so far into the arm that it hits the metal sleeve. If it doesn't your golden. If it does you need to space the fitting out some or file the inside of the fitting off. This will take the check valve out of the fitting and make greasing the item a mess but it still works. Then I just throw a cap on the end of the nipple to keep it clean. It would be much better to just epoxy a small tab/washer each arm. Let it sit overnight, drill and tap and then you would never have to worry about it bottoming out.
As far as using the full rear set I think it's bad. You need to use the something that allows the rear suspension to follow it's natural arc forward as the wheel moves. You could also leave the two inside bushings on the control arms oem. Problem is I don't like the look of the ES bushing that gets used on the trailing arm. The ones I see are huge and have a ton of surface area. They look to cause a great deal of friction in this area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn B
What am I, predictable? LOL.
However, he brought up the "suspension bind" issue. Damn, I think he done told me to search. ......
I know this was not brought up, but I'm going to go on the record as questioning whether or not it is going to be worth your while to even do the ES bushings, from both a cost-benefit standpoint, and a 'do you really need them' view.
Having installed a B13 ES master set on my old NX, I cursed myself for having ever considered the idea. Some of those parts just don't want to come undone, and you may end up replacing a few other things you hadn't planned on (such as the kingpin). Since you're paying for labour, it's probably going to be $300+ for the ES kit and having them installed. You are going to love your car with the spring/strut/sway bar/strut bar combo, it may blow you away enough without blowing your pocket book away too.
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Climate Change skeptics are the new Flat Earth Society
I question the use of ES bushings. I know on my 240 getting them off the car and getting real sperical bearing on the car made a world of difference. I kept the ES on the hub side. I would keep it oem unless you have a real reason to change them. Paying someone else to do it would cost more then it's worth I think.
I was too lazy today to read those threads provided by Steve. 
......
