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Old 01-27-2007, 10:46 AM   #1 (permalink)
98sr20ve
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Custom Shortened Koni INFO Discussion

As a result of request from forum members I am posting this new thread to discuss and clarify the options you have with Koni's on B13/14/15.

First some background.

http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=185316

Post 79 of Shawn's "most excellent suspenionsion thread" says

Quote:
Originally Posted by 98sr20ve View Post
CSK info

CSK need to be choosen based on the type of spring you want to use. If you are using oem style spring (any spring that does not use a coilover sleeve) then you have to use the Off The Shelf (OTS) B13 Koni unit for the rear of the B13. With drop springs or coilovers you can use the OTS B13 or B15 unit up front. B13 front unit is a touch shorter then the B15 front but does not have external adjustment while on the car. B15 front unit has external adjustment and those can be adjusted with out removing the strut. If you want to use the OTS Koni Maxima front unit you need to use it with coilovers. To use that you need to use any number of oem nissan housings. Maxima, Altima all have some housings that will work. They need to be a 2 inch O.D. to work.
Spring Rates
B13 Fronts =350
B14 Fronts = 400+ (not as short as the B13, I use it as a rear with the Maxima insert on the B13 with coilovers only).
B15 Fronts 400-450 (450 is the limit, 400 is better).
Maxima Fronts= 450+
Dampening is very personal. Some people my like the B13 fronts with higher then 350 some people would not.

Adjustability

Only the B15 front is exteranlly adjustable. All Konis commonly used wtih the B cars are adjustable, you just must remove the spring to do it.


If you update this into your post please give me credit so I don't have to reanswer a bunch of PM's about this all over again when people wonder if it's what I recommend. Also, can you include this statement as well
"B14-15 have to use OTS non-shortened units in the rear of the car. They are shocks not sturts and are sold complete. They are not inserts that can be relativly easily shortened. Koni can shorten them for you."
You should really expand you thread to include some B14-15 stuff. A lot of it's pretty universal. Plus, that statement alone would put all the Koni OTS info in one place.
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=170794

He reposted most of my post the the Koni section on the first page as well.

This thread tells you how to do it yourself.

http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=26211

With all that said I will try to break it down for each chassis what options you have for using Koni's and making/buying CSK for yourself. You need to understand that the Koni's offered for the B13-15 are inserts. They are not total replacement struts. The advantage of this is that by ignoring the directions that Koni provides (at your own risk) you can lower the insert in the oem housing and effectivly shorten your own struts. Look at the pictures posted in the How To section and you will see the insert with the nub cut off the bottom. Thats the easy way but it's not as short. I will go into more detail on this in the future.

Options for each chassis.

First a little background. The B13 comes with the shortest OEM struts of any of the three cars we are going to discuss. As a result the B13 Koni insert for the B13 is the shortest of them all. Everyone assumed because of this that the AGX for the B13 was also shorter then the AGX for the B14. Eric96ser posted pictures to show that when using AGX's there is only a small amount of difference between the B13/14. Basically they are about 13.5 inch's long.

Front Options B13-14-15

Koni B13 Fronts- Shortest unit you can use in the B13 OEM housing. It's just about 12 inch's long. Its the weakest of all the options. I don't use it very much any longer. I recommend the Spec V insert instead. Nothing wrong with this option. It’s just for $20 more you get the Spec V insert which is a better buy in my opinion. Max spring rate is in the 325# range

Koni Spec V insert- Just about 1/8 longer then the B13 insert. Its about 30+% stiffer and this unit is exteranl adjustable thru the hood. You sometimes need a spacer under the top nut to get it to properly tighten down on the B13-14 tophats. This is the unit to use on a B13-14 if you are using lowering springs or want easy external adjustment. It is also great for use with Coilover Sleeves like Ground Control. Max Spring rate is in the 400# range.

92 Maxima insert- This unit when installed by me is under 11.5 long. It is also the strongest option listed. It can handle 450# springs easily. It is not externally adjustable and it requires you to buy Maxima or Altima housings. They just need to have the right lower bolt spacing and have a 2 inch O.D. You will probably need to cut most of the oem perch off and bend the remaining ears out to lower the perch. In some cases you have to weld on a new perch. You can buy a perch from Ground Control or make one out of steel with a big washer or use a plasma cutter on some scrap steel.

Rear Option B13

Standard Koni B13 rears- This is your only option for those running lowering springs (such as Hyperco and Road Magnet) on a B13. You can not use any other Koni in the back on a B13 with those lowering springs. It is 1 inch shorter then oem standard so you don’t even need to do any tricks to lower the things. Just install them as the instructions say. They work fine with lowering springs but I don’t pair them with the Maxima fronts. Max spring rate is in the 275# range. Another option for those with lowering spring is to just use AGX's in the back with Koni in the front. The front is the place that we have major travel issue, the rear is not as big of a deal. With a under 1 inch drop you are fine in the back with AGX's with Hyperco. I have no experiance with Road Magnet springs.

B14 Koni Fronts installed into OEM B13 rear housings- This is what I pair with the Maxima fronts on a B13. This unit is strong and will easily handle your 400# plus rears. It is not externally adjustable. It require a really long bolt (grade 8) a bunch of spacers and it has to be spaced up to be the right height in the back for the GC setups. It can not be used with lowering springs. I struggle with recommending this setup as you need to install these properly or you can really have some issues. Max spring rate is in the 400+ range.

Spec V fronts installed in OEM B13 rear housings- Same info as above. Just externally adjustable and not as strong as the B14 front. Max spring rate is same as front. Around 400#.

B13 Issues in the back.
If you are running the OEM rear bar you need to use the OEM rear housing to have the swaybar mount. Not all housings have the rear swaybar mount but many do. If you use the oem housing and later run the progress bar you may run into clearance issues. The bolt on the bottom of the Koni may hit the bar. You can usually adjust the bar to solve this issue. If you are using the Progress bar already just skip the OEM rear housings and run some front housings in the back. They have a lot of clearance for the swaybar and don’t require as many hops to get the Spec V and B14 inserts to run at the right length because the housing places the bottom of the insert higher from the start.

Issues with all Koni installs.

None of the Nissan housings are the same. Its annoying. I have had the L/R varience on the same car (my car) be so great that the L side was loose and the right was perfect. I have seen one side of a maxima unit slide in perfect and the other side has this weird stamp /bulge that prevents the unit from seating the last 1 inch. You just need to be a problem solver sometimes. You can always post your problem and I will help you. I don’t want it done thru a PM because then no one else learns the information.

Spring rate issues. I list my recommendations. Everyone is different. Some may find they handle a strong spring, some may think they are underdampened at my posted limit. Knock 10% off to be safer if you like.
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Old 01-27-2007, 10:47 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Please ask all your questions. I will update the first post as we go to make the changes. When this is done we will put it back in Shawns thread.

Last edited by 98sr20ve : 01-27-2007 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 01-27-2007, 12:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Thank you Steve! I just read this once, and will definitely go over it a few more times.

For a B13 running a Progress rear bar and coilovers at or below #400, the best option if you want easy adjustability would be to run 4 front cores with SpecV inserts all around?

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Old 01-27-2007, 12:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscar View Post
Thank you Steve! I just read this once, and will definitely go over it a few more times.

For a B13 running a Progress rear bar and coilovers at or below #400, the best option if you want easy adjustability would be to run 4 front cores with SpecV inserts all around?

C
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Old 01-27-2007, 02:52 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Is a spacer in the rear housing required to help with droop travel, b13? Obviously the rear insert is much longer than the front. I already can pull the inside rear tire off the ground and flat spot them. I'm guessing with less droop travel it would be worse. I would love some easy adjustability and go up in rear spring rate. I feel that the stock b13 rear red insert is at its damping limit with my 275 spring.
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Old 01-27-2007, 03:17 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I was debating this option...feel much more confident to attempt this.

Thanks Steve.

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Old 01-27-2007, 03:47 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Steve do you know the outside diameters of the different inserts?

I have 2 full sets of Shockteks that are pretty much all blown but they would make fantastic housings if any of the inserts fit.
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Old 01-27-2007, 04:23 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rex View Post
Is a spacer in the rear housing required to help with droop travel, b13? Obviously the rear insert is much longer than the front. I already can pull the inside rear tire off the ground and flat spot them. I'm guessing with less droop travel it would be worse. I would love some easy adjustability and go up in rear spring rate. I feel that the stock b13 rear red insert is at its damping limit with my 275 spring.
Droop travel with the Koni's is generally determined by the spring you are running not the shock. In other words most GC springs have less then 4.5 inch's of actual travel. If you set your spring perch up right you can easily get that amount of usefull travel out of the Koni Fronts placed in the rear of a B13. It's all about setting the height of the Koni right in the back vs the spring perch height and knowing you spring travel. Thats another thread I think. Start it up if you want.
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Old 01-27-2007, 04:27 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paNX2K&SE-R View Post
Steve do you know the outside diameters of the different inserts?

I have 2 full sets of Shockteks that are pretty much all blown but they would make fantastic housings if any of the inserts fit.
38mm for the reds, 45 mm for the maxima IIRC

IF they are steal another option is to send them to Truechoice and just have them thread/cut the top for a 8611 install.
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Old 01-27-2007, 04:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Steve,
Thanks for repackaging and reiterating this info. Every time I search through other Koni threads my head would spin. This is so much easier to follow! So much so that it may make it that much easier to spend my money! Arrgh!


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Old 01-27-2007, 05:06 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I updated the How Too thread with some new pictures as well.







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Old 01-27-2007, 08:23 PM   #12 (permalink)
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ok steve, iv got a few questions. i plan on making my own coilovers useing a koni setup and either ERS springs that i already have or some hyperco coilover springs

i plan on useing the progress CO spring rates of 350/250. i bought some ERS springs a long time ago planing to use the ebay perches i bought from a friend but they feel really cheap and i plan on welding them to the shock body.these are the ebay GC's i have now my question is whats the best set of sleeves i should use from colamn racing? i am going to use the b15 koni's but i still need to read more of your info to figure out the best strut body to use....or maybe it dosent matter since im going to cut the OE spring perch off and weld these on. this wont happen for a few months but i just want to finalize my options now since we have you attention.

one more question. coleman racing has various hyperco spring to buy. i think a 2.5 inch I.D. would be best however they have differant lengths of 7inches, 8 inches, and 10 inches. again what would be the correct size?
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Old 01-27-2007, 08:35 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nismo1.6 View Post
ok steve, iv got a few questions. i plan on making my own coilovers useing a koni setup and either ERS springs that i already have or some hyperco coilover springs

i plan on useing the progress CO spring rates of 350/250. i bought some ERS springs a long time ago planing to use the ebay perches i bought from a friend but they feel really cheap and i plan on welding them to the shock body.these are the ebay GC's i have now my question is whats the best set of sleeves i should use from colamn racing? i am going to use the b15 koni's but i still need to read more of your info to figure out the best strut body to use....or maybe it dosent matter since im going to cut the OE spring perch off and weld these on. this wont happen for a few months but i just want to finalize my options now since we have you attention.

one more question. coleman racing has various hyperco spring to buy. i think a 2.5 inch I.D. would be best however they have differant lengths of 7inches, 8 inches, and 10 inches. again what would be the correct size?
I want to add a little to this question as to help get an answer to my question as well. Actually I just need to find out what length ERS spring to get, as I have a set of GCs on my car now, but have a set of new ones for the front of my B14, and would like to know what length to get if I am going to use 400# springs in the front and the 350# 7in springs that I have for the rear. Thanks again for creating this post as I have been wanting to do this for a while, I have prepped my OEM B14 housings for the koni's already, just need the weld on perch.
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Old 01-27-2007, 08:36 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Most people prefer an 8 or 10 spring length up front (2.5" ID required). The 10" spring is nicer for softer rates, but not necessary for rates over 350-400 lbs.

For the B14 rear you want a 7" spring and set it on the lowest of the two perches (c-clip settings).

Personal preference for springs would be Eibach, Hyperco, and Swift.

The GC sleeves are good, as are the Coleman Racing ones. It's really personal preference as to the safeguards they use to keep the spring from rotating on it's own. Some use a double perch (second acts as a lock nut), while others such as GC use a allen screw that tightens down against the sleeve threads locking it in place.
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I'm sorry I didn't copy everyone else's setup. If you need a preacher to tell you what mods to put on your car, the Reverend Veilside180sx might have a suggestion.

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Old 01-27-2007, 09:10 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nismo1.6 View Post
ok steve, iv got a few questions. i plan on making my own coilovers useing a koni setup and either ERS springs that i already have or some hyperco coilover springs

i plan on useing the progress CO spring rates of 350/250. i bought some ERS springs a long time ago planing to use the ebay perches i bought from a friend but they feel really cheap and i plan on welding them to the shock body.these are the ebay GC's i have now my question is whats the best set of sleeves i should use from colamn racing? i am going to use the b15 koni's but i still need to read more of your info to figure out the best strut body to use....or maybe it dosent matter since im going to cut the OE spring perch off and weld these on. this wont happen for a few months but i just want to finalize my options now since we have you attention.

one more question. coleman racing has various hyperco spring to buy. i think a 2.5 inch I.D. would be best however they have differant lengths of 7inches, 8 inches, and 10 inches. again what would be the correct size?
You can use a 10 inch up front but it's only needed in the lower (325 or less rates) after that 8 inch is fine. Just weld a perch on at the right heigth. Don't weld those thingss on. You have no idea if they are going to weld very well or not. If you weld a nice flat perch it's the same thing in the end. Either spring brand is fine. BTW, you have threaded sleeves not perch's. Perch's are what the sleeves sit on.
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Old 01-27-2007, 09:13 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beethaniel View Post
I want to add a little to this question as to help get an answer to my question as well. Actually I just need to find out what length ERS spring to get, as I have a set of GCs on my car now, but have a set of new ones for the front of my B14, and would like to know what length to get if I am going to use 400# springs in the front and the 350# 7in springs that I have for the rear. Thanks again for creating this post as I have been wanting to do this for a while, I have prepped my OEM B14 housings for the koni's already, just need the weld on perch.
It's not a simple anwer. As you already have GC springs you can find out how much sag you have at the current spring rate and figure out how much you would have with the stiffer spring. Normal 400lb 8 inch is fine in front. 7 is better in back.
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