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Granted non of these cars are no longer produced ( b13 and b14 platforms )
but how much money can you make ( company standpoint ) when you are limited to what is already out there, and entering a market that has been around for over 10 years for some cars, and competeing with the junk springs that cost so much less simply because there is not time or quaility in the product.
There are a few of us out there that do like a quality product and to compete with really only one other company ( Hyperco ), with their price, I don't see why the SHOUDN'T make it regular production. They have the the B13 platform ready to buy on the RM site, granted it's full price not a group buy, but they see market in that, and I don't see why they wouldn't do so for the B14 Chassis as well.
I really don't know what I'm getting at but that's what I have to say
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Thanks Zorak I feel pretty confident that i rocked the exam!
Install took about 2 hours. Nice, slow, and careful.
My initial opinion of this new suspension after tearing ass through my favorite road in the area:
Its STIFF!
It made me instantly aware that the sidewalls of my tires are too thick.
I need sway bars.
I think thats a good thing. It was very easy to pinpoint the left over weaknesses.
As i said earlier, the front wheels stick. On tight 2nd gear corners, the outside front tire feels like its in a perfect groove that carries you through the exit with plenty of momentum (ooh i cant wait to autox this baby ). Very flat cornering (with a good set of swaybars it'll be a G machine).
Weight transition is infinitely quicker. Theres no bobbing on accel/decel, or between shifts which is great! The body rolls significantly less as well, and i think matched up to a good set of low profile tires, this is a good setup.
Its Stiff! very stiff. Every imperfection in the road becomes instantly noticeable, however its not intolerable.
If you're going to put these on your daily driver, dont be driving on badly paved/bumpy/pothole-y/icky roads. did i mention its stiff?
I was impressed with how composed the car was over the awkward bumps that previously would throw the car out of its line. Even when tackling the rougher areas at speed, It takes a heck of a lot to unsettle the car with the new setup.
I think once the suspension settles more, it should be even better.
I hope the rain holds off tomorrow. I should have the before and after video's posted up by the end of the weekend if all goes according to plan.
Before
After
I'm going to get some other people's opinions this weekened and should have some more input soon.
Last edited by GA16Lucino : 05-11-2007 at 03:19 PM.
Rob, don't look now man, but you've got competition on the Hyperco group buy. Looks like we even lost a man from our GB here.
Plenty of room for two (2) SR20 Forum Exclusive Springs. Our forum is growing quickly, and folks now have two performance options. That kicks ass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeKKiE
I still don't understand what the hype is about the Hyperco springs, comparing them to the RM springs. Aren't these both the best for our chassis? Except that one's quite a bit cheaper? Just curious
The Hyperco springs are progressive wound springs. Their initial spring rate is softer, getting stiffer the more you compress the springs until you run out of travel.
Hyperco Gen II Spring rate: 110-290 front, 75-200 rear
The Road Magnet springs are a linear wound spring. The spring rate is exactly the same from the initial compression until you run out of travel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Suspension Thread
Group Buy #1 Spring rate B13: 325 front, 250 rear
Yes, the progressive rate spring is more expensive and more difficult to manufacture. Softer on the initial road impact, less jarring.
They are indeed both the best for our chassis, thee only conventional springs available that are worth a damn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robchaos19
^good summary. RM is an up and coming company. They have been working hard to make a name for themselves, and With the quality of their products coupled with the price we can get them for, I think they will have no problem at all. People just need to be willing to give them a shot. I don't see why people are so hesitant though, given the success of the first run of RM springs. There was not one bad review out of 25 sets sold.
Oh well. In a few weeks the second run of B13 springs will be shipping out,
a week or so after that the first run of B14 springs.
Hopefully getting some more positive reviews out there will help things pick up.
You are providing an excellent product at a very attractive price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeKKiE
Still nice to see that there are more than just a couple options for our chassis, given the fact that we have piss poor chassis design (B14 moreso than B13, IIRC)
Bingo. Two types of custom ordered and specified, SR20Forum exclusive, springs for our cars?!? That KICKS ASS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InfaZorak
I feel the main issue we have is, that good companies like Hyperco are shooting themselves in the foot, because they only make their products for our chassis for group-buys.
If you study Hypercoil, they are doing us a big favor. Friendships and business cultivated between the forum (Chriscar/Mike K, etc.) and Hyperco. They always have a backorder. They cater to high-end professional motorsports, and serious big-time high-dollar tuners (Hennessey for one). Our GB probably accounts for less than 0.0001% of their annual sales. We're fortunate they are willing to work with us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InfaZorak
Hopefully if RoadMagnet finds that these products are accepted within the community, and there's a market for them, that they'd be willing to make them a regular product.
I agree. That would be terrific. In the meantime it is still awesome that we have two solid choices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InfaZorak
The fact is, that the springs available to our cars in the mainstream are pretty much garbage or borderline junk.
You are 100% correct. All of the rest of them suck, piss poor "ricer" engineering catering to the masses of Super Street afficianados.
Rock on Rob. Love the work you are doing to provide us with choices.
__________________
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good point zorak. Problem is, will they make enough money to realize that they can make this spring regularly? Remember, if they dont make enough money off of it, or believe in it enough, they wont make too much of them. The problem is finding people willing to buy the spring and use it PROPERLY, the way it was used, not some guy off the street who just wants to look like a honda.
PS With me saying that, yes i know i didnt pay yet, I'm workin on it
Ah yes a valid point. However, I really ope there aren't any Nissan owners trying to look like Honda owners. That should be an offense punishable by atomic wedgie.
Granted non of these cars are no longer produced ( b13 and b14 platforms )
but how much money can you make ( company standpoint ) when you are limited to what is already out there, and entering a market that has been around for over 10 years for some cars, and competeing with the junk springs that cost so much less simply because there is not time or quaility in the product.
There are a few of us out there that do like a quality product and to compete with really only one other company ( Hyperco ), with their price, I don't see why the SHOUDN'T make it regular production. They have the the B13 platform ready to buy on the RM site, granted it's full price not a group buy, but they see market in that, and I don't see why they wouldn't do so for the B14 Chassis as well.
I really don't know what I'm getting at but that's what I have to say
Yes the current platforms are coming up on 10 years old, but think of where it could lead them? There's still the B15 Sentra, not to mention the new C-Platform Sentra.... Versa... the sky's the limit. I didn't know they had the B13s on the website until now. Still... $270 is comperable to, or in some chases, cheaper than, the crappy springs out there. They're still much cheaper than Hyperco.
The springs that RM has listed on the site are the ones they have made for me. They told me they would put them up there and just give people my contact information when they wanted to purchase a set.
Since I came to them with my car and an exact set of specs for these springs, they would not be allowed to continue to produce them and sell them for themselves. There is always the possibility that they might make a run of their own with different specs, but they would be much much softer and probably a lower drop. The fact is, most of your regular joes out there looking for springs are looking for something to slam the car to the ground and still be nice and soft. Most people who want something better and are worried about function over form are alraedy on this forum participating in RM and Hyperco groupbuys !
Lucino, thank you for the very well written review. You autoX tomorrow, right?
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Plenty of room for two (2) SR20 Forum Exclusive Springs. Our forum is growing quickly, and folks now have two performance options. That kicks ass.
The Hyperco springs are progressive wound springs. Their initial spring rate is softer, getting stiffer the more you compress the springs until you run out of travel.
The Road Magnet springs are a linear wound spring. The spring rate is exactly the same from the initial compression until you run out of travel.
Yes, the progressive rate spring is more expensive and more difficult to manufacture. Softer on the initial road impact, less jarring.
They are indeed both the best for our chassis, thee only conventional springs available that are worth a damn.
You are providing an excellent product at a very attractive price.
Bingo. Two types of custom ordered and specified, SR20Forum exclusive, springs for our cars?!? That KICKS ASS.
If you study Hypercoil, they are doing us a big favor. Friendships and business cultivated between the forum (Chriscar/Mike K, etc.) and Hyperco. They always have a backorder. They cater to high-end professional motorsports, and serious big-time high-dollar tuners (Hennessey for one). Our GB probably accounts for less than 0.0001% of their annual sales. We're fortunate they are willing to work with us.
I agree. That would be terrific. In the meantime it is still awesome that we have two solid choices.
You are 100% correct. All of the rest of them suck, piss poor "ricer" engineering catering to the masses of Super Street afficianados.
Rock on Rob. Love the work you are doing to provide us with choices.
Shawn;
Thanks for taking the time to outline some items. I want to make it clear that I have no problem at all with Hyperco. Quite the contrary. I applaud them, RoadMagnet, and anybody else who wishes to step up to the plate to produce a high quality product for our machines. Even better if they can produce them at an attractive price point.
Thanks for also pointing out the differences between the two springs that I forgot to include.
The fact of the matter is, before I discovered the RM group-buy, I was content to wait for another Hyperco to roll around. When I discovered the RM GB starting up, I thought it was important to contribute to the community by offering my support for another product on the market.
Big ups to Rob and Chris as well for bringing two great products to our community. They both deserve credit; and if I ever find myself up in MD I'd buy Rob a beer.
The springs that RM has listed on the site are the ones they have made for me. They told me they would put them up there and just give people my contact information when they wanted to purchase a set.
Since I came to them with my car and an exact set of specs for these springs, they would not be allowed to continue to produce them and sell them for themselves. There is always the possibility that they might make a run of their own with different specs, but they would be much much softer and probably a lower drop. The fact is, most of your regular joes out there looking for springs are looking for something to slam the car to the ground and still be nice and soft. Most people who want something better and are worried about function over form are alraedy on this forum participating in RM and Hyperco groupbuys !
Lucino, thank you for the very well written review. You autoX tomorrow, right?
Rob;
You could stand to make a bit of money on this.
If they wanted to sell your design of spring, I bet you could draw up some kind of contract that would give you liscensing for the design, and a percentage of the sales.
Before installing these springs, my girlfriend used to get very (sea)sick riding in my car on the stock suspension. Now that the RM's are on, she doesnt mind riding in it one bit even with the high spring rates. Thats gotta count for something!
Tomorrow's the real test though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robchaos19
Lucino, thank you for the very well written review. You autoX tomorrow, right?
My pleasure, Rob.
The auto-x is tomorrow morning in Frederick at harry grove stadium. Theres also a beerfest going on in the upper parking lot.
Got the camera charging. I wont have the vids up as soon as i had thought. The person i had that was going to capture it is out of town for the weekend, but i will have them up this coming week for sure.
Hi guys, just to clear up the reasoning for Hyperco only doing this on a Group Buy basis. The sole reason is liability, plain and simple. Back around 2000/2001 Hyperco was going to enter the performance aftermarket and actually designed and manufactured springs for a number of cars. They put them in inventory, and were all ready to go when the lawyers from Hyperco's parent company put a stop to it, because they felt that the liability risk was to great relative to potential profit from the springs.
"We" as a group arent singled out, Hyperco doesn't sell any consumer oriented springs. The closest thing you as an individual can purchase are ERS type springs (the kind that go on GC coilovers), and even then you're going to have to buy them from a distributor.
With the current business model, Hyperco sells them to Rick Crist and at that point they're out of the picture. For them to be available on a continuing basis, Rick would have to inventory them and there's just not enough profit in them to do that.
Chris
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Hi guys, just to clear up the reasoning for Hyperco only doing this on a Group Buy basis. The sole reason is liability, plain and simple. Back around 2000/2001 Hyperco was going to enter the performance aftermarket and actually designed and manufactured springs for a number of cars. They put them in inventory, and were all ready to go when the lawyers from Hyperco's parent company put a stop to it, because they felt that the liability risk was to great relative to potential profit from the springs.
"We" as a group arent singled out, Hyperco doesn't sell any consumer oriented springs. The closest thing you as an individual can purchase are ERS type springs (the kind that go on GC coilovers), and even then you're going to have to buy them from a distributor.
With the current business model, Hyperco sells them to Rick Crist and at that point they're out of the picture. For them to be available on a continuing basis, Rick would have to inventory them and there's just not enough profit in them to do that.
Before installing these springs, my girlfriend used to get very (sea)sick riding in my car on the stock suspension. Now that the RM's are on, she doesnt mind riding in it one bit even with the high spring rates. Thats gotta count for something!
Tomorrow's the real test though.
My pleasure, Rob.
The auto-x is tomorrow morning in Frederick at harry grove stadium. Theres also a beerfest going on in the upper parking lot.
Got the camera charging. I wont have the vids up as soon as i had thought. The person i had that was going to capture it is out of town for the weekend, but i will have them up this coming week for sure.
Awesome. Depending on whats going on with me, I might try and make it up there to watch. Depends on how long I'm helping my father with his RX7 tomorrow morning.
I feel pretty confident that i rocked the exam!
). Very flat cornering (with a good set of swaybars it'll be a G machine).
!