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Man, I would love to, but I am just now paying off all this turbo stuff I have been doing. I was planning on next fall/winter to do this. How quick are you all trying to get this thing going?
Brent
__________________ Coach - EEN Member/The Fist Don't F with me!
1993 NX 2000 -- Slate Grey Metallic bitches
1999 SE-L -- Turbo stuff on it
I would need to have more information before I can commit.
What kind of time line are we looking at; this is an important factor for myself?
Also, what are the main differences between the Constant Mesh and the Syncromesh Gearset (besides the obvious syncros)? I have not seen any detailed writeup’s on the Syncromesh yet. Maybe this question will need to be directed towards PAR?
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Monty <--- Another victim of the go-fast crack pipe....
Thanks guys for all of the great questions. I forwarded them all to PAR. Once I get the details I'll try to get this thing together. I'm very excited...especially if we can get 10 people. I mean that's only $2000!!! Not bad for a 400+hp gear set with synchro's!
The production time will depend on how many people are interested. I was told anywhere from 6-8 weeks. It could be sooner if we are very serious...it could be later
I'll post more details as soon as I here from them.
For what its worth im in if the G20 ratios can be made. Which i doubt ......
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Larry Low
92 Pulsar GTI-R BLK Gab upper strut brace, Cusco 4pt Front underbrace, front/rear skid plate, stock rear rollbar, full tein coilover suspension , tein camber plates and thats about it for now. Pm me if you need GT Turbos or ano other type.
Originally posted by blackb13 I've gotten some info about the PAR "synchro" gearset.
They will be rated at 450bhp and retain stock ratios...more info as I get it.
Here are some price breakdowns. All prices are approximate at this time.
1-2 = $2600
3-4 = $2300
5+ = $2100
They would need deposits first and then it will take 6-8 weeks to build/ship the gearsets...depending on quantity.
Opinions/comments???
I would assume that these synchro gearsets would be straight cut? (Makes up some for the fact that they are not as wide as dog gears if so)
I have not decided whether to go Dog or Synchro but would be in on a group deal nonetheless. I think Frank asked this as well, could the Dog gearset be included in the group buy? A mix of the two if you will, although Dog sets would be a little more. If so what would be the pricing structure of the Dogs?
Mike when you say motorcycles have dogs...would clutchless 4-wheelers be included? (I have an old Honda 125cc 4-wheeler) If so I know at least my honda has a clutch pack that is actuated by the shift lever...is it the same in motorcycles? (Dirt motorcycles I had as a kid had handlebar operated clutches)
One last question: The horsepower numbers being quoted by PAR are at the wheels or the crank?
I swear the more I read about your description of shifting without the clutch I imagine it being about as hard as trying to drive a right-hand drive car. Shifting a 4-wheeler is one thing (up-up-up-up or down-down-down-down) as opposed to throwing it from 2nd up OVER to 3rd. I gotta see this thing in action!
Straight from the horses mouth. Let's start ordering!
Quote:
With the dog sets all the synchro's are eliminated and dog teeth are incorporated. This mean we have a system that will engage gear at any rpm with no problem like a motor bike, but mind you it is a very aggressive shift. Although this may seem as a great advantage it is also a disadvantage in the sense that dog teeth wear. This does not bother a race car since they have no trouble selecting gears and they inspect their trannies after every meet. Also in a race car under race conditions synchronizers cop a beating and usually break.
On the other hand the average street guy that has more than enough power for the stock box needs a box that will not break gears like biscuits as they come on power, but still drive like a normal box. That is where the synchro box comes into the picture. It will drive the same way as a stock box, I.e daily driven, but will not shred gears.
Basically,
dog box,
Advantages:- shift at any rpm, will not break gears, take up to 600hp at the wheels
Disadvantages:- wears dog teeth, requires maintenance, rougher to drive.
All these points appeal and at the same time do not bother race teams.
synchro box,
Advantages:- does not wear, daily driven, will not break gears, take up to 450hp at the wheels(more at crank), no maintenance
Disadvantages:- cannot shift at any rpm,
I hope this gives you a better understanding about the differences.
We can make any ratio you guys like.
50% on order and final when ready to deliver.
On the dog sets you will have to add a further $322 on each price.
Krist, I've really got to start playing the lotto. Either that, or sell a bunch of my crap on Ebay.
That's an excellent price, especially for what you get. Hell, I've got a mostly stock car and I buy it just to hear it and to intimidate other cars:p
Ah, crap, though. My budget for this year is going to take a beating from the purchase of light weight wheels and performance tires. I'll have to put this on the list for next year.
Great find, Mike. And, great group buy idea blackb13.
Later,
Mark
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"No Daddy.... it tastes like Butt!"
Originally posted by Thomas Reynolds I would assume that these synchro gearsets would be straight cut? (Makes up some for the fact that they are not as wide as dog gears if so)
I have not decided whether to go Dog or Synchro but would be in on a group deal nonetheless. I think Frank asked this as well, could the Dog gearset be included in the group buy? A mix of the two if you will, although Dog sets would be a little more. If so what would be the pricing structure of the Dogs?
Mike when you say motorcycles have dogs...would clutchless 4-wheelers be included? (I have an old Honda 125cc 4-wheeler) If so I know at least my honda has a clutch pack that is actuated by the shift lever...is it the same in motorcycles? (Dirt motorcycles I had as a kid had handlebar operated clutches)
One last question: The horsepower numbers being quoted by PAR are at the wheels or the crank?
I swear the more I read about your description of shifting without the clutch I imagine it being about as hard as trying to drive a right-hand drive car. Shifting a 4-wheeler is one thing (up-up-up-up or down-down-down-down) as opposed to throwing it from 2nd up OVER to 3rd. I gotta see this thing in action!
I am pretty sure that your 4 wheeler is constant mesh. Don't worry its easy to shift. I got straight cut because its stronger and has less drag. The whine is not bad at all, less than a Jackson supercharger kit or a gear drive on a V-8. PAR can make heliercal cut gears.
I just am getting a syncro box for my NA car because it won't need the brute strength of my turbo car.
Mike
Last edited by choaderboy2 : 05-10-2003 at 02:01 AM.
Originally posted by Low612 For what its worth im in if the G20 ratios can be made. Which i doubt ......
The G20's ratios are hardly different. Its not worth not getting a stronger gearset over. PAR's ratios are almost the same as stock. I wanted to get a strong tooth count and turbo motors don't need a close ratio spread because they have so much torque.
Hey Mike, perhaps you could share your experience with the install of the gears. What kind of fluid you're using, input shaft, etc...
Thanks, Steve.
Edit: Also, what gear ratios would you recommend for us turbo folks? The stock gears are waaaay to short and 5th is too damn short. This could be a great way to get rid of that annoying 3500rpms at 60mph!
Originally posted by blackb13 Hey Mike, perhaps you could share your experience with the install of the gears. What kind of fluid you're using, input shaft, etc...
Thanks, Steve.
Edit: Also, what gear ratios would you recommend for us turbo folks? The stock gears are waaaay to short and 5th is too damn short. This could be a great way to get rid of that annoying 3500rpms at 60mph!
The install goes pretty straight foward. I did not have to reshim my case thank god. I had to slightly chamfer my 2-3 slider a little because it was contacting one of the gears as well as slightly grind on the 3-4 shift fork. It was pretty obvious when I was doing the dummy assembly and proably not all trannys will need this. It just took a few minutes on the belt sander to do the clearnacing. You could used a bench grinder or even a file to do it as well. The PAR kit includes the input shaft as 1,2,3,4 and reverse are intergal with the input shaft.
I recomend the ratios the PAR recomends so you get the best tooth count combo for maximum strength. These ratios are close to stock.
I also recomend getting a good LSD like a Nismo unit at the same time.
I also welded the case and shotpeened everything major steel inside except the diff while I was in there including the PAR gears. My standard tranny shotpeening is to use 120 shot at RC 55-65 shot followed by 230 shot at RC 55-65 hardness at an intesity of 12A. PAR says its not needed but its cheap (about $60) and since I was in there...
Originally posted by blackb13 Hey Mike, perhaps you could share your experience with the install of the gears. What kind of fluid you're using, input shaft, etc...
Thanks, Steve.
Edit: Also, what gear ratios would you recommend for us turbo folks? The stock gears are waaaay to short and 5th is too damn short. This could be a great way to get rid of that annoying 3500rpms at 60mph!
I agree on the se-r stock ratio with you. My car is driven 100 miles a day roundtrip 5 days a week . Its the higher revs in 5th gear i want to change. When up there its just hard t
