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Ok, so I'm reading all through here, learning how to install a VVL in my street car. What I'm not exactly clear on: what is the absolute, bare minimum stuff I need t obuy to install the engine in my car and get it running? I don't mean the best install, or how to extract the most power, I mean "what does it take to get one running in a US-spec car?"
I gather I'll need at least:
- VVL engine
- ECU
So what else? Sure, I'll eventually do all the other stuff, like aluminum flywheel, clutch, better exhaust, and the cam switch gear and stuff, but I want to plan to installing this engine over a couple of afternoons, just to get it running and back on the road. For example, will all the A/C stuff bolt on? The alternator? The intake? The exhaust (in my case, an eBay SSAC header)? "Can" it run on the stock ECU?
After it's running I'll do all the other mods on a selective, as-available basis.
Yes Greg, you can run it on a stock ecu. Just swap in your USDM temp sensors, o2 sensor, MAF, and 259cc injectors.
It'll run on just the low cams, without issue until you install an activation switch. If you're going to use a singe switch to activate both cams, get an MSD 8696. For seperate activation the MSS will be a better choice.
Will all the A/C stuff bolt on? The alternator? The intake? The exhaust (in my case, an eBay SSAC header)?
Yes to all.
You'll need to use the USDM A/C bracket.
The intake may need to be modified a bit since the throttle body is in a different spot as the VE is a lowport.
So, let's stray a little from the thread topic (hey, it's MY topic; can do what I want to!) Let's say I do that: install the bare minimum with my USDM injectors, sensors, ECU, etc. The absolute minimum it takes to get running.
In what order would you do everything else?
Obviously, I'll need the MSD (or equivalent) to make the high cams work; should I do the Real Time ECU with the JDM sensors, MAF, injectors first, or at the same time? Will it run OK on the high cams on the stock injectors or will it lean out? Will it run too rich if I do the injection stuff without the high cams?
(I recognize the expense and install of the MSD is not that much, and I'll probably do it all together; I'm talking theoretically speaking here...)
What about after that? I've got the 2.25" SSAC header with a 2.25" exhaust; is that the next step?
And, assuming I don't give in and do the aluminum flywheel and better clutch as part of the initial install (probably will, but...); where in the mix should that be considered?
What about aluminum pulleys? Better cams?
What other mods?
Your priority/wish list is appreciated...
Greg, sitting here thinking about this fun little summer project in between race weekends...
Greg, I would get a Calum ECU, use the US sensors, VE injectors, and whatever exhaust you have on the car. You can upgrade the clutch, but I think a stockish disc will be fine. For a daily driver, I would keep the stock cams also. Leave the more radical parts to the race car.
__________________
1996 200SX SE-R VE powered
2004 Subaru Forester turbo
2006 Mitsubishi Evolution IX
should I do the Real Time ECU with the JDM sensors, MAF, injectors first, or at the same time? Will it run OK on the high cams on the stock injectors or will it lean out? Will it run too rich if I do the injection stuff without the high cams?
Toss out the JDM sensors, nobody here programs their ecu's for them.
You won't max out the 259's with the stock 20ve cams.
So, the injectors, maf and ecu need to be installed as a package.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Amy
What about after that? I've got the 2.25" SSAC header with a 2.25" exhaust; is that the next step?
I belong to the (uneducated) Bigger is Better Camp, and ran an AEBS header & 3" no cat exhaust on my VE and was perfectly happy with it. The surprising part is how civilized the exhaust note was as long as I stayed on the low cams, which is easy to do when just driving around town. Once the big cams hit, it's a different story.
When you install the header and cams is up to you, since the ECU will compensate. I'd hold off on dyno sessions (assuming you have to pay for them), until you've got all your gofast goodies installed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Amy
And, assuming I don't give in and do the aluminum flywheel and better clutch as part of the initial install (probably will, but...); where in the mix should that be considered?
I'd definitely go with a lightweight flywheel, and decent clutch, but don't go overboard on the clutch. A JWT Pressure plate with 2001 disc will be strong enough and have a nice light pedal. That's what I ran on mine, along with a Fidanza flywheel. WHEN you put it in is up to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Amy
What about aluminum pulleys?
Vogel makes VE pulleys. Check with him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Amy
Better cams?
Used 16ve cams will run you ~$400 and are compatible with the stock springs and retainers. Beyond that you have the N1's that Vogel is selling for $650 new, but they need upgraded springs and retainers.
I am currently running a VE with no VVL activation, stock ECU, MAF and injectors. It runs fine, just not as fast as it could be. Detonates a bit at throttle tip-in, so I have the timing retarded further than it should be.
__________________
Climate Change skeptics are the new Flat Earth Society
Greg, I would get a Calum ECU, use the US sensors, VE injectors, and whatever exhaust you have on the car. You can upgrade the clutch, but I think a stockish disc will be fine. For a daily driver, I would keep the stock cams also. Leave the more radical parts to the race car.
where do you get the calum ecu? I have heard varying numbers from guys with "stock" VEs. I have forgotten. What WHP are the DE injectors at stock Fuel pressure good for? I might be running a restrictive exhaust or i might have a high dollar header and a 3" exhaust. my ECU doesnt have a revlimit nor a speed cut so if i could get away with it and stock injectors I might put off the calum ecu. Of course i would install the RPM switches asap and would like to know if the stock ecu is asking for a problem.
Old topic... I know! but will the 259cc DE injectors with stock DE ECU be able to cope with the high cam profile via an activation switch (Summit # 830450 or MSD 8969) or would I have to reprogram the stock DE ECU + run VE injectors before getting an activation device? I'll be running a basic I/H/E set-up so don't want to spend on an ECU reprogram if I don't have to.. unless there IS a risk.
you can run stock ve injectors, some people suggest advancing your timing a bit. im running the same set up you have with the stock DE ecu. runs good but if you get it tuned it will be better
__________________ Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.
Here's a link to the CalumSult Order Form. The new RT2 has additional analog inputs, and additional digital inputs and outputs which can be programmed for VVL activation. I am also looking at modifying the stock DE ECU to use the EGR and AIV outputs for programmable VVL activation.
^Hey, are you the older gentleman from the convention that was speaking with Calum? I just noticed your sig and that's why I asked. That build is INSANE. I'll look at that thread more when I get home.
__________________ Bend But Don't Break
93 SE-RProject 2Door - 2.0VE Gio tune - built 2.3VE up next.
93 XE-R Project 4Door - DE+T - Money Pit. Building N/A and Boost, the best of both worlds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SR20GTi-R
NA is a thinking man's game, alot of people dont have the stomach to play NA.
ok now I'm confused....... can you run the VE injectors with the de ecu????
The simple answer is no. One of the things your ecu uses to calculate the amount of fuel it injects, is the injector size. Change to larger injectors and it'll run rich. Of course, it's smart enough to be able to vary the fuel amount by using feedback from the 02 sensor, but there's only so much it can do.
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