How to run alot of nitrous and not blow it up using progressive control!

dj4monie · 11-05-2003, 06:16 AM

Make this a sticky please -

My friend Scott Kornish on the Neon.org board wrote this to explain how you would need to set a progressive controller and run alot of nitrous and not blow it up. I've been trying to tell people for years progressive control will allow you to use alot more nitrous than you normally would, I just never could explain in layman's terms.

Anyway, he explained alot better than I could -

Quote:

To specifically answer your question lets have some fun with nitrous math. NX conservatively states that a typical stock 4 cylinder engine can handle a straight 75 shot with no problems. At 3000 rpms the torque added would be 75hp*5252rpm/3000rpm = 131.3 ft-lbs. So to be conservative we'll say your engine can handle making 230ft-lbs of torque without bending a rod. (Assuming you're hitting the nitrous while already accelerating the car). You want to set up you nitrous controller so you don't exceed this torque limit. At 6000rpms a 125 shot would add 125*5252/6000 = 109.4ft-lbs. You're way safe as long as you set the time on the controller to be hitting full nitrous by the time you're at 6000rpm. I use Desktop Dragstrip to help figure out time in each gear so I know how long to set the build time for. Its kind of a guessing game, but just work your way up and input your data as you go to match your real world runs as closely as possible. Anyhow, now that I have a reliable daily driver, I'm going to test my theory with a 150 shot next summer before I totally change my set up.

Original Post - http://www.neons.org/forums/viewtopi...=943807#943807

Andreas Miko · 11-05-2003, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Make this a sticky please -

My friend Scott Kornish on the Neon.org board wrote this to explain how you would need to set a progressive controller and run alot of nitrous and not blow it up. I've been trying to tell people for years progressive control will allow you to use alot more nitrous than you normally would, I just never could explain in layman's terms.

Anyway, he explained alot better than I could -

Original Post - http://www.neons.org/forums/viewtopi...=943807#943807

Here is a trick setup for a progressive setup for the SR20DE.

Start at

4000 RPMs 100 shot
5000 RPMs 120 shot
6000 RPMS 140 shot
7000 RPMs 160 shot

The SE-R motor will be living on the edge at 135-145 shot of NOS at 4000 RPMS. Here is a good example if you can spray 75 shot at 3000 RPMs then you can spray 150 shot at 6000 RPMs. The rod will have the same amount of load on it at 3000 RPMs with 75 shot at it would with 150 shot at 6000 RPMs.

Make sure you have a fuel pump that can handle the fuel demands and yu will be fine. Also NOS like a bigger exhast cam. So a good setup for nos would be S3 intake and S4 exhaust or C1 intake and C3 exhaust. I would always run valve springs and retainers with NOS as the RPMs can come up very fast.

dj4monie · 11-05-2003, 09:47 PM

You forgot exhaust system is very important too.

The problem with that and nitrous, since it's a part-time power-adder, running an exhaust too large will weaken your low-end torque in city/town driving. If you don't mind it, I would run a 3" exhaust if I was running over 150hp shot.

A more streetable exhaust would be a 2.5" cat-back with a really good header like the Hotshot.

Like I've always said, there's no reason a mild nitrous 4 cylinder car can't run 12's single nozzle progressive (100hp), heavy duty progressive shot run 11's (125-150hp) and a built motor (200-225hp) run 10's all without risking major damage.

Maybe this post (thanks Andreas) will finally pound that into people's heads... You don't need a turbocharger to make phat power numbers, just takes somebody to think it out properly and do it.

Andreas Miko · 11-06-2003, 07:36 AM

100 shot of NOS I used to run 12.4-12.6 at 110 MPH

140 shot of NOS I used to run 11.9-12.1 at 114 MPH

JRios · 11-06-2003, 05:16 PM

Something that has always had me wondering, if someone were to run a 150 - 200 shot, is it safe to do it on the stock MAF?

SERprise In WV · 11-06-2003, 06:50 PM

Yes it is, and here's why:

With a wet nitrous setup, you are providing the air and fuel *independently* of what the engine normall runs. It has no idea you're adding air/fuel at the ECU. You're sneaking it in, so to say.

You aren't moving any more air through the MAF, but rather, adding it (mixed with fuel) further on down the line.

As for the progressive setup: If you think of nitrous as a liquid (like water) coming out at a steady rate....and the engine spinning at an ever-increasing rate...you'll get the idea of how nitrous really flows. It is linear: the flow stays the same. Yet...the engine doubles (or even triples) its number of rotations. This is with a regular single-or-direct port setup with no controller.

So, as Andreas pointed out, a 75hp shot at 3,000rpm is in reality only a 37.5hp shot at 6,000rpm. The engine has doubled its speed, but the flow of nitrous has remained constant.

I see no reason why a stock-ish SR20 couldn't handle a 200hp shot, as long as it was ramped up correctly. Dan Paramore (DPR) and I had long talks about this 2 years ago.

This will take some experimentation.

SE-Rican · 11-06-2003, 07:51 PM

This is probably one of the best stickies so far. Two of the most knowledgable nitrous peolple have chimed in!

Andreas and GP!

JRios · 11-07-2003, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andreas Miko

100 shot of NOS I used to run 12.4-12.6 at 110 MPH

140 shot of NOS I used to run 11.9-12.1 at 114 MPH

Those time are great Dre. Were these bolt-on engines or were they built engines??TIA

Andreas Miko · 11-07-2003, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRios

Those time are great Dre. Were these bolt-on engines or were they built engines??TIA

These were bolt on runs. I did these times about 4 years ago. I have not been messing around with NOS lately, but I do have a built motor for 200 HP shot of NOS now.

SE-Rican · 11-07-2003, 04:47 PM

JRios I have seen Andreas's SE-R run down the track. The day I went it was running 12's. I will tell you what it was a jaw droping moment. All the people in the stands could not believe it.

Hopefully I can get my car to do that someday.

JRios · 11-07-2003, 11:18 PM

That's freakin sweet. I just bought 4 NOS foggers with the distribution block today for a very nice price. So now I'm trying to piece together everything else that I need to get this thing to work. Any suggestions on where I could get the rest of the things that I need at a decent price? TIA

SERprise In WV · 11-09-2003, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRios

Any suggestions on where I could get the rest of the things that I need at a decent price? TIA

I'd highly suggest So-Cal Speed Shop in the LA area. They are THE source for NOS-brand parts. When you order directly from NOS...it comes from So-Cal Speed Shop. They know their NOS stuff.

Scott Kornish · 11-21-2003, 01:11 PM

Hey guys... Saw a link to this on the ClubSi nitrous page. Anyhow, the progressive N2O systems work very well (especially NX). NX has a new one out that is even more programmable and flexible. Its worth a look. Also, why not try an exhaust cut out instead of 3". You can set up the exhaust to work well NA (also so its not obnoxiously loud) then open it up when its time to spray. Several companies even offer electric cut outs too so you can open it up from inside the car. I have one that I'll be trying out this coming up season.

SERprise In WV · 11-21-2003, 01:40 PM

That is a *great* suggestion.

Welcome to the forum, btw.

Scott Kornish · 11-25-2003, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SERprise In WV

That is a *great* suggestion.

Welcome to the forum, btw.

Thanks... I'm going to test my theory this summer with more nitrous. 125hp jets and maybe up to 150 jets. I'll be pushing my luck, my stock 2.4 rods aren't as stout as the SR20's I'm afraid.

akapaul · 01-07-2004, 11:47 AM

Very nice thread. Welcome to the forum!

14.3 @ 97 NA, 2.15 60ft - was this with weight reduction? Nice times!

FastNX · 01-07-2004, 08:07 PM

Quote:

I'll be pushing my luck, my stock 2.4 rods aren't as stout as the SR20's I'm afraid.

I know the stock neon rod aren't for sure. Someone I know built a motor for his neon, it makes about 180WHP and he bent the rods shortly after breaking it in-with no power adders, just the built motor

Peter · 01-25-2004, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRios

That's freakin sweet. I just bought 4 NOS foggers with the distribution block today for a very nice price. So now I'm trying to piece together everything else that I need to get this thing to work. Any suggestions on where I could get the rest of the things that I need at a decent price? TIA

I'm not sure exactly what the connection is,
but I've found that my half brothers father,
(my Mom's new husband as of about 10-12
years ago) is now somehow affiliated with
SoCal speed. He'll even be selling the clothing
sometime soon. As it is, he's fully NOS authorized
and has a refilling station set up in Oak Park, CA.

Basically, he said I could get whatever I wanted
for as many people as I wanted at, or *very* near
his cost. Towards that end, I'm running a GB for
ALL NOS products. If it has a NOS/Holley part
number, then it's available via this GB.

I'm waiting for him to get his new price list,
but he'll give me the family hookup. I'm trying
to pass it on, Jez was the inspiration for the
deal, so thank him for making me ask about it.

As it is, I think I'll be throwing Nitrous on about
3-4 vehicles, depending on how many pennies I
can scrap together.

My '92 Classic, an '89 S-10 Blazer 4.3 TBI, an '83
GMC K1500 with a mildly built 355ci, and my buddies
'91 Sentra E.

All I ask is, go to Holley's web site, get part numbers,
and post the request in the thread I started in the GB
Forum. While I await progress on the CF hoods, I might
as well kill some time

I'd suggest that I should get a hold of the price sheet,
and see what the direct port systems are going for,
with all kinds of extra goodies. The two applications
I know will fit on our SR20's at the moment are the
05130NOS and 05122NOS. I think there are better
kits, including a bunch of pro street carb plate stuff.

jdubs99 · 04-05-2004, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Kornish

Hey guys... Saw a link to this on the ClubSi nitrous page. Anyhow, the progressive N2O systems work very well (especially NX). NX has a new one out that is even more programmable and flexible. Its worth a look. Also, why not try an exhaust cut out instead of 3". You can set up the exhaust to work well NA (also so its not obnoxiously loud) then open it up when its time to spray. Several companies even offer electric cut outs too so you can open it up from inside the car. I have one that I'll be trying out this coming up season.

Wouldn't this be a major bottleneck in the exaust system, at least when the car is DD.

blairellis · 04-25-2004, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdubs99

Wouldn't this be a major bottleneck in the exaust system, at least when the car is DD.

I doubt it. Heres a reference page.

http://www.pfyc.com/store/merchant.m...ory_Code=GPEXH