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I read in the old forum that people were concerned about getting their weight down to the minimum and just wanted to point out that the weight does not include the driver... so if you were counting youself in the weight total, you're already lighter.
Right now, the weight is based on weighing the car without driver for minimum weight and all power-to-weight calculations. There is discussion on changing this for 2004- making it weight with driver and changing minimum to 2300 and 16:1 weight to power ratio. Right now it is even split among current racers, so this is kind of up in the are for the off-season. It shouldn't change much how you prep the car (especially in initial construction) because in most cases it will come out very similar.
I read in the old forum that people were concerned about getting their weight down to the minimum and just wanted to point out that the weight does not include the driver... so if you were counting youself in the weight total, you're already lighter.
Right now, the weight is based on weighing the car without driver for minimum weight and all power-to-weight calculations. There is discussion on changing this for 2004- making it weight with driver and changing minimum to 2300 and 16:1 weight to power ratio. Right now it is even split among current racers, so this is kind of up in the are for the off-season. It shouldn't change much how you prep the car (especially in initial construction) because in most cases it will come out very similar.
What are your typical car weights and horsepower numbers of all the SE-R racers. I don't see how I'll meet the 15:1 without spending a lot more money.
The fastest cars are in the low 140 hp range and right around the minimum weight, these cars can go faster for longer before overheating the tires. Some cars like Naji and I wiegh more like 2300 lbs and have power in the low 150 range. The heavy more powerful cars are also fast, especialy on a long course but must be driven carefuly to manage the tires. This sort of power is easily acchived through simple cheap bolt ons.
Most cars run header, S3 or S4 cams, ECU, CAI and UD pulleys and thats about it.
...discussion on changing this for 2004- making it weight with driver and changing minimum to 2300 and 16:1...
I'm interpreting this to mean the cars must weigh at least 2300 without driver, then the race weight with driver must be at least 16# per horsepower? I like this idea, as it would allow the current crop of ITS B13 cars to be reasonably competitive in the SE-R Cup (read: more entries); our SCCA cars must weight 2490 with driver.
As an example, in ITS-legal trim we're about 135hp to the wheels and 2275# without driver (with 1 gallon of fuel). To run SE-R Cup I could swap in some cams, lose a 10-15 pounds of the personal ballast (been looking for a good excuse anyway) and be right there. (2275+25 to meet minimum, plus - ahem - 190 for driver, divided by 16 = 155.6hp max).
Under the current SE-R Cup rules there's just no way I can either get minimal weight or enough horsepower to make competing in the series reasonable. Unfortunately, until NASA runs tracks in the northeast (Watkins Glen, Lime Rock, Pocono, New Hampshire) it's also not reasonable for me to abandon SCCA, as much as I'd like to...
I'm interpreting this to mean the cars must weigh at least 2300 without driver, then the race weight with driver must be at least 16# per horsepower? I like this idea, as it would allow the current crop of ITS B13 cars to be reasonably competitive in the SE-R Cup (read: more entries); our SCCA cars must weight 2490 with driver.
As an example, in ITS-legal trim we're about 135hp to the wheels and 2275# without driver (with 1 gallon of fuel). To run SE-R Cup I could swap in some cams, lose a 10-15 pounds of the personal ballast (been looking for a good excuse anyway) and be right there. (2275+25 to meet minimum, plus - ahem - 190 for driver, divided by 16 = 155.6hp max).
Under the current SE-R Cup rules there's just no way I can either get minimal weight or enough horsepower to make competing in the series reasonable. Unfortunately, until NASA runs tracks in the northeast (Watkins Glen, Lime Rock, Pocono, New Hampshire) it's also not reasonable for me to abandon SCCA, as much as I'd like to...
Greg,
I think their new rule will be 2300lb with driver. Jim, please correct me if I'm wrong.
The rule is still in consideration. It really comes out to a wash anyway:
My car weighs 2180 without driver and has 144 whp (15.138:1). If we change it to weight with driver and 16:1, then my car weighs 2360 (16.388:1). Either way, I'm within 50 lbs of my ideal and haven't changed the car at all.
I just can't fathom how you guys are having so much trouble getting weight out of your car. The NX used to weigh in at 2550 or so. I took out 370 lbs and that included me adding a cage. A Classic is even easier. Just starting taking stuff out.
Besides, the first two seasons of racing has shown that 100 lbs here or there really doesn't make a difference. This is really a driver's series and a good driver will easily overcome that difference.
Greg, I'd recommend just running your car as it runs in IT- maybe put in cams. Then you'd be at least 140 whp, 2275 lbs under current rules or 2465 under 16:1 rule. Mike Kojima runs about 140 whp and 2300 lbs under the current rules and is competitive because of his car setup and experience. You'd be surprised how competitive you'll be for the first few season, at least. And then you could race with either body
-Jim
Last edited by Jim #98NX : 10-22-2003 at 05:52 PM.
I'm interpreting this to mean the cars must weigh at least 2300 without driver, then the race weight with driver must be at least 16# per horsepower? I like this idea, as it would allow the current crop of ITS B13 cars to be reasonably competitive in the SE-R Cup (read: more entries); our SCCA cars must weight 2490 with driver.
As an example, in ITS-legal trim we're about 135hp to the wheels and 2275# without driver (with 1 gallon of fuel). To run SE-R Cup I could swap in some cams, lose a 10-15 pounds of the personal ballast (been looking for a good excuse anyway) and be right there. (2275+25 to meet minimum, plus - ahem - 190 for driver, divided by 16 = 155.6hp max).
Under the current SE-R Cup rules there's just no way I can either get minimal weight or enough horsepower to make competing in the series reasonable. Unfortunately, until NASA runs tracks in the northeast (Watkins Glen, Lime Rock, Pocono, New Hampshire) it's also not reasonable for me to abandon SCCA, as much as I'd like to...
Currently our minimum weight is 2125 W/O driver with a 15:1 power to weight ratio. We are considering changing this to 2300 with driver and a 16:1 power to weight ratio.
An IT car is considerably heavier but you could shed weight with some things you can bolt back and forth and ballest up for IT which would be to your advantage. Or my car is 2300 lbs wo driver because I carry a weight penalty because my car was built for USTCC and has an illegal cage and a few other illegal for SR bits.
I just have more power than a minimum weight car and my car is still highly competitive although I have to be careful and conserve tires. I have had a podium finish at nearly every race this year except when I had very bad problems. My car has won twice and made several charge from the back of the pack efforts so it is not exactly uncompetitive.
All you would need is to throw in some S4 cams and change the chip in your ECU and you would have the right power to weight, then put the stock stuff back for IT.
Belive it or not, their are 6 SE-R cup cars that can win on any given weekend and they all qualify usualy less than a second apart. The weights are pretty diverse, Tom Paule, Rob Cadle and Tony Guardado are at the minimum, Naji, Jared Holstien and I are at around 2300 lbs, Sheening Lin is in between.
All of these cars except Jareds are pretty fast, Tony is just a beginner driver but his car is proably the quickest in the series. Jared's car is awful but he is very talented and is sometimes fast when not blowing up. I put it on the pole having never driven it before once. There are two more cars in the series but they are a notch lower in preperation. Three more are under construction.
I'd say do a quick cam and chip swap and run both series.
