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Go Back   SR20 Forum > Vendor Customer Support > CalumSult (Archived for Informational Purposes) > ROM & ECU tuning file exchange



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Old 02-22-2006, 12:55 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Thinking about buying...

I have been reading in here for a while, and quite frankly I think my head is going to explode. Most of the stuff talked about in here is over my head, from a technical standpoint.

So I will pose a relatively easy question to answer....

Is there, or could there be, a ROM that would cover the following in an SR20:
10:1 comp
Stock inj
Q45 MAF
91 (min) octane

what all would you reccomend that I buy? I know that buying a ROM editor would probably be a must, and probably the consult.


thanks for your patience.
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Old 02-22-2006, 03:14 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I'm not a guru on this, but why are you running the Q MAF on a NA car? Seems like overkill to me for more or less a stock program otherwise.

Calum can do custom programs, but you might want to e-mail him a link to this in-case it slips by. You don't need the ROM editor if you aren't tweaking your own programs. If you are, then you will also need the Moates (or equal.) burner after you have your ecu chipped. The CalumSult is pretty handy.

We should see if we can get Calum to come up to STL again, and you and I could dyno together. Aren't you about 2-3 hours south?

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Old 02-22-2006, 03:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Yeah, about 2.5-3hrs SW of you. I Dyno'd my Talon in Belleville at Axis, IIRC. Ron was a nice guy.

as for the MAF and stuff, I was just wondering, as I have a Q45 MAF and it seems a shame to just let it sit there and collect dust. I already have a CAI and full exhaust. Plus, I might upgrade to bigger injectors and what not a little later.

It was just an idea. Not sure if I would see many, if any, gains.
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Old 02-22-2006, 03:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
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if you buy a romulator you can get into tuning it yourself. I think you actually need two romulators. This plugs into the board from your laptop and emulates the chips, then when you get your tune narrowed down, you can burn the rom you just made to your chips and install them in the ecu.

At least, that is how I understand it to be.
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Old 02-22-2006, 07:28 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quick answer:

Sell the Q45 maf, thats waaaaaay to big. If you want to swap mafs get a early 90s maxima maf (purple tag, I forget the number, pinout is the same as a Z32). Its a plastic housing maf like the Q45/Z32, same size as a Z32, but reads lower airflow than either. Good NA or anything less than 300hp maf. And cheap until everyone else figures this out.

That being said, for an NA car start tuning with the stock maf until you learn what your doing. Its not hard, but take one step at a time. This is what you need to tune your car, barebones:

1-Rom board (ala daughterboard), installed, duh. I like mine because its easy to use, but I'm biased of course. If you've never installed one and aren't starting a business let someone who has done it before do the install. Trust me.

2-Rom burner. I recommend the moates, but be aware of its restrictions. If your using one of my daughterboards everything is golden, else make sure you get roms it will work with. Other people like the willems, but I hate them. To each his own.

3-Consult connection. Consider this a must. Either through one of the many variations of consult boxes, or I think the nisdata display thing, or whatever. I've got an ultra top secret rom board that has the consult stuff built onto it, but don't tell anybody.

4-Consult software. Well, you've got alot to choose from, and alot of it is free, so life is good. For tuning I'm partial to my own, and for one single reason. Mine will datalog and plot as a function of rpm, and that makes life so easy when your working with a dyno and trying to figure out which points you need to change. I like the conzult freeware for setting timing and idle, his interface for this is very easy to use.

5-Rom editing software. I still use good old rom editor, mostly. Download it, play with it, get used to its little issues, and its quick and dirty to use. See this thread to get it to look right: http://eccs.hybridka.com/viewtopic.php?t=11

Or for the lazy-

"I figured it out, go to control panel -> regional and language options. Then click on the advanced tab and in the first pull down box, it will say something like "Language for Non-Unicode programs" in blue at the top. From the pull down list select Japanese. Click ok and it will then say you need to restart your computer, restart it and the program should look like the picture. It worked for me and I hope it will for you guys having problems."

6-Other assorted tools:

You really should have a wideband. I've got an innovate currently, but that will probably change that when I have some money to burn. I like the innovate and recommend it for a low cost easy to use wideband. Oh, one trick, you either need to have a second o2 sensor bung for the wideband, or use the stock bung and feed the analog output of the innovate into the ecu. To do this I mounted a screw terminal block on top of an ecu and ran wires internally to the ecu pins. This makes for a quick way to work on someone else's car without them having to add a bung.

You also really need some time on a dyno. You can do the A/F curve on the street (and should do some datalogging on the street!), but the real power for an NA car (and a turbo car, but you've got other issues) is in the timing curve. This is something that most people on this forum seem blissfully unaware of. 2 degrees of timing in one spot can make quite a bit of difference. You need dyno time to really take advantage of this.

And thats it. I really really recommend not buying romulators (yes, you need two, and if you order a db from me for them make sure to request regular sockets, they won't fit in the ZIF sockets I normally use, they hit the ZIF handle) until you play with the above first. You can really do quite alot with just those tools. There are other toys out there too, but you don't loose much by starting simple. You can always resell what you start with...

Tuning the ecu (NA or using a stock codebase!) with the above tools goes like this: install the ecu without the cage and top cover, so just the harness is holding it in place. Don't worry, it won't go anywhere, I've autocrossed like this many times. Start working with your fuel map. The nice thing about an NA car with a stockbased tune is you only need to work with the last two (far right in rom editor) columns of the maps. Btw, use one of the tunes that has the timing map with the knock sensor disabled, this makes things easy to read. Big numbers make it richer, small numbers make it leaner. Make the last two columns identical. Adjust, remove roms, burn roms, install roms. Takes 30 seconds to do that, not a big deal. Only work with rpm points over ~3000 and up, under that is unimportant. What makes this take longer is you don't have any easy way to plot afr vs rpm with just a basic innovate or wideband, so you have to fiddle a bit. When you get this settled, move on to the timing map. This is easier, as CalumSult will give you a timing vs rpm curve:



Overlay this with your dyno curve and look for power changes with timing. Adjust timing points in 2-3 degree steps. Listen for knock. Don't worry, an NA SR20 won't blow up, even a 10:1, when you ping it. SR20s are tough. I've ran some crazy timing, it doesn't make power btw. Look for jaggies on the dyno curve, thats also a tale tale sign. For your application start with whatever the last NA rom I posted was (4?), but back the whole curve down 5 degrees and work from there.

Enjoy!

Edit: Just for fun, this is what the timing curve in my 9.5:1 NA tune looks like vs a stock timing curver:


Last edited by Calum; 02-22-2006 at 07:35 PM.
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Old 02-22-2006, 07:56 PM   #6 (permalink)
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wow. Just wow!
That is probably the most informative answer I could have asked for. thanks man. Gives me lots of ideas, and points to go from.
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Old 02-22-2006, 08:35 PM   #7 (permalink)
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man, I wish I got answers like that when I ask questions on the forum. Thanks from everyone Calum!
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Old 03-13-2006, 12:37 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Will it actually hurt to plug a Q45 MAF on an N/A vehicle then? No matter how modded?
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Old 03-13-2006, 02:26 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtswrx
Will it actually hurt to plug a Q45 MAF on an N/A vehicle then? No matter how modded?
With a Q45 MAF on a NA car you are giving up too much resolution. In other worlds it makes the ecu less precise and less consistant.
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Old 03-27-2006, 07:12 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calum
Quick answer:

Sell the Q45 maf, thats waaaaaay to big. If you want to swap mafs get a early 90s maxima maf (purple tag, I forget the number, pinout is the same as a Z32). Its a plastic housing maf like the Q45/Z32, same size as a Z32, but reads lower airflow than either. Good NA or anything less than 300hp maf. And cheap until everyone else figures this out.


Do you mind sharing the part number on this MAF bro? Thanks.
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Old 03-28-2006, 11:43 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Nevermind, I got it. The part number is 22680-16V00
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