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Lemme see....for 2500 bux U can get 190HP NA which should net U some low 14s high 13s in the 1/4. Or for around 1200 bux U can get a BBird DET with ECU, slap on a 3" turbo back, K&N, front mount Spearco IC up the boost to 11psi on the T25 with a 8 dollar fishtank valve from Pets Mart and U already Maxed out the stock MAF and injectors.....so U run C16 race gas and U are within the 2500 bux like the VE...and U can still spring for some slicks. Now with a capable driver U will run low 13s in a B13 if not some high 12s in the 1/4. Leave the VE on the highway and pull like a mofo way up to 8K RPM in 5th gear- don't ask me how been there done that on my BBird. I'm a big fan of All Motor but there aint nothing like the sound of a big O TO4E sucking up half the world at 20psi at WOT in 5th gear Also the car is much eassier to drive around town if U have passengers, it doesn't feel so overweight like a NA car would. I know on my BBird it didn't matter if I had 4 people in the car or 1 it still felt the same.
Mike Jez
01 Maxima- with a moded ECU !! finally.
93 SE-R
"I know on my BBird it didn't matter if I had 4 people in the car or 1 it still felt the same."
They call that torque. I was kinda of undecided at the start but now am really leaning toward the turbo. I can keep the boost lower on the track. It's not a race but a driving school anyway. Even at lower boost the car will be fast. On the street when you can't stay in the throttle longer then 45 seconds or so I am sure the car can handle the higher boost of around 12 psi (depending on turbo and setup).
It's an easy decision. If you are all about straight out power, turbo is for you. You shouldn't even consider looking at a VE if you want to be the fastest person in your neighborhood.
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Chuck Nibbana
Retired VE owner
Forever an SE-R owner at heart
2005 BMW M3
remember, it is NOT recommended to push the stock T25 that far, i wouldnt risk much more than 10 psi, and only with a reputable boost controller. the aquarium thing is not very reliable, whats to stop the bleeder screw from falling out and allowing you to run basically no wastegate? not the safest thing to do, but hey, YMMV, especially mike's. :p
if you are going with the T28, i would recommend going with the Cobra MAF and MSD 50 lb/hour injectors. the usefulness of the T28 over the T25 will only be realized with the bigger injectors. otherwise, you will be limited to about 11-12 psi on both, just with more lag from the T28.
Good luck with the turbo though, i will be bolting my sh*t on in about 2 weeks.
I drove terrin's car and I was very impressed with the power delivery. There was little to no lag and it felt like an NA car. Having said that, I also drove Amber's SR20VE on the track and I was also impressed. I did not drive Terin's car on the track, so i cannot comment.
Just this weekend Amber's car put down 176.6 wheel hp with no exhaust a poor choice of a header and a warm air intake. I think with the proper hardware that engine can easily push 195 wheel hp.
Now it all depends on what you want in a car. Do you want to drag race, then get a turbo. Do you want to road race, then get the VE engine.
I am still not convinced that an aftermarket turbo system can handle the rigours of racing that I do. I am very very very very hard on my car. I take no prisoners. I am either full throttle or full brake. I also race in the high desert. I have registered intake temp of 140 deg and water temp of 225 deg racing in the summer. The temp in the shade was a 100 degree.
I have seen some turbo car forced to turn down the boost to almost nothing and they still detonate in the heat.
I am not convinced that a turbo on an SR20DE can handle a 40 minute race in the heat of summer. There will be turbo cars in the SE-R Cup race series. I will observe them and see how reliable they are.
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1998 SE-R, 2008 ITA Champion, SoPac Region
2002 Toyota Tundra V8 SR5, tow truck, 207 hp, 271 lb-ft
2006 Apex Silver Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution
OK. I appreciate all the good info. This is a really hard choice to make. Let me clarify a couple things. I would never truely race the car on a track. But I would drive it for 30 minute sessions for track/driving school activities. I am still open for suggestions on the BB with T25 vs DE with T28 vs VE. What I really want is a very nice daily driver that will still let me play safely during driving schools. Priority are street performance including drivibility (noise, tractability) for my wife acceptance factor, and then durability. I dont want to lose performance. Chris at sr20dev. told me that the driveability of a T28 on a DE is excellent, better then a BB. I was at Rosen and saw little add on oil coolers, didn't ask if they fit my car. I think the VE fill meet all my goals except maybe power. I think its interesting that a VE puts down 175 ish with the basics. I have a hard time seeing it gain 20 hp with a cold air and better header. I figure 175 whp is about the same as a RSX type S. I really want more then that car has. Please don't flame. I posted here because I assumed what the majority of answers would be in the Turbo forum.
If I were you, I'd go the VE route. Turbos make lots of power, yes. I have been doing track schools for 3 years. At nearly every one (I've done 25 of them so far) someone with a turbo had problems. The more boost, the more spectacular the problem generally. At the 3 events I've been to this year, a turbo Miata exploded, and my student this past weekend in a *nice* 300ish hp Eclipse GSX blew his intercooler hose and had to limp home.
In contrast, the honda hybrids can handle whatever you dish out and beg for more. The only problem I've seen with one of those is one B20 hybrid's bolts backed out from the flywheel.
I like N/A for motorsports. More reliable. Costs less. Less stuff to fu*k up.
Edit:
Quote:
I figure 175 whp is about the same as a RSX type S. I really want more then that car has.
Remember you are toting around 200-250 lbs less than an RSX...
Originally posted by MaddMatt Sorry for getting in on this so late.
I like N/A for motorsports. More reliable. Costs less. Less stuff to fu*k up.
Edit:
Remember you are toting around 200-250 lbs less than an RSX...
Matt
I think you know I respect your opinion. After reconsidering everything I am just waiting to save up enough money to do a VE. I think I am close. I didn't realize that my car (98 sentra Se) weighed that much less the a RSX Type S. Also, I compared some Dyno charts of a SR20VE and a RSX, the Ve had 25 ftlbs of torque on the Acura in some spots, 20 ftlbs on average in the top end.
Ultimately what is in the favor of the VE is the reliability at the road course. I decided to listen to what Wade, Scott and others have said (and what you have confirmed) and go the more reliable route. I do believe that you can get a reliable Turbo for a road course but you are going to need to sweet all the details and pay for the best stuff up front. Then you need to run lower boost.
I do believe that you can get a reliable Turbo for a road course but you are going to need to sweet all the details and pay for the best stuff up front. Then you need to run lower boost.
Yup. The best turbo story I know is one of my friends finished 10th overall in 1 Lap of America last year in an RX7TT. He had a HUGE radiator, and a not-so-small oil cooler to go with it. He ran stock boost. He finished 10th overall and 2nd in class with a basically stock car in part because he didn't break.
The urge to bump up the boost is difficult to overcome.
Quote:
I didn't realize that my car (98 sentra Se) weighed that much less the a RSX Type S.
The published numbers on weight that I've seen has the Type-S ~2800 lbs, with your SE ~ 2600 (give or take a few pounds with options of course). Add the torque advantage you mention and bu-bye RSX!!!!
Just got back from a weekend at CMP. Why should you care? There was a dyno, and 2 RSX-Type Ss ran on them. One had 146 at the wheels, the other had 149. I don't think you'll have ANY problem with them in the acceleration department
Just got back from a weekend at CMP. Why should you care? There was a dyno, and 2 RSX-Type Ss ran on them. One had 146 at the wheels, the other had 149. I don't think you'll have ANY problem with them in the acceleration department
Is that stock? How come noone was bitching and moaning about the 25%+ drivetrain loss on an RSX but the Spec-V gets lamb-basted for a 20% loss?
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Jason
1999 Infiniti "Super Black Obsidian" G20 (last dyno'd at 146hp/129tq at the wheels, leaky header ) w/ JWT POP, JWT S3 cams, UR 2 pulley set, HotShot Header, custom Dynomax Ultramax exhaust, JIC Magic SF-1 suspension, Stillen front ST brace, Apex-i Rev/Speed meter, Carbon Fiber dash kit.
Both cars were completely stock. One was an SSB race car with 380 miles on the clock. The owner was PISSED his car was so slow and made so little power. He paid for the dyno runs for the owner of the other Type-S with ~7500 miles on it to see if it was just his car. He's calling Honda NA today.
It was hot and humid this weekend. The dyno guy garunteed the numbers were corrected for environmental conditions.
I think Acura bullsh*tted the HP numbers, much like Nissan did on the Spec-V. The acceleration numbers I've seen just don't make sense for the type-s. 200 hp simply should motivate a 2800ish lb car to 60 mph better than low 7s and 15.5 in the 1/4. The dyno numbers confirm this. The engines are uncharacteristically weak for Honda.
Also the car is much eassier to drive around town if U have passengers, it doesn't feel so overweight like a NA car would. I know on my BBird it didn't matter if I had 4 people in the car or 1 it still felt the same.
) w/ JWT POP, JWT S3 cams, UR 2 pulley set, HotShot Header, custom Dynomax Ultramax exhaust, JIC Magic SF-1 suspension, Stillen front ST brace, Apex-i Rev/Speed meter, Carbon Fiber dash kit.
