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Here are my crazy latest cam specs to try once I get my car on the road. I'm only planning on testing these on my car though.
Yeah, the intake lift is up there, but i got everything squared away to make some power up top... I hope.
IN
305 @ .006"
289 @ .015"
260 @ .050"
13.80mm ( .544") lift
EX
302 @ .006"
279 @ .015"
250 @ .050"
12.00mm ( .473") lift
Is this new profile of yours on n1 CL's?
I want to know why Franklin have done their's on such different CL's, the Kelfords and the N1's are similar (with in a couple of deg) yet the Franklins are just strange in comparison. Were the Franklin and n1's CL's measured @ 0.006" same as kelfords?
I have been thinking of giving Adrian at franklins a call and seeing what his reasoning behind the CL's was, but i don't really know enough about cam specs to ask the right questions.
I know there has been chat about Adrian from Franklin Cams not being computer savvy and thus why he doesnt frequent forums but can one of the KIWI guys get a hold of him so that once and for all we can recieve the reasoning for the difference between Franklins profile and other VE Cams from the maker/designer himself.
I tried to get an answer on that when i was talked to him on the phone the other week. I asked why his Centerline's were so different to the like's of Kelford/N1's and i didn't really get a straight answer. He said that he had tightened up the CL's a bit from stock (which doesn't make sense looking at the measured CL's)
He did explain to me that they brought an engine and measured all the valve events of the standard motor, so he would have known what the standard centerlines were. To me the CL's seem backwards.
At the end of the day just buy some cam gears with them and play with the CL's on a Dyno. I believe 5 Speed has got good results from playing with the cam timing on the FS4's
I helped Ivan check the FS4, and they fall within Franklin official spec. There's nothing out of the ordinary, so don't bother Franklin asking them about supposed discrepancy on the exhaust cam.
We were curious about the exhaust cam because Charles's measurement was different from mine and Franklin. Charles's measurement has the valve lift at 11.74mm, while our was at 12.09mm. The 12.09mm lift is the same as what I have on mine.
There are other things we would like to clear up. Previously, it has been stated, "there is a .005 in difference from lobe to lobe." Based on our lash measurements, this statement is false. Ivan checked the lash twice, and I double check his measurements. The FS4 were drop straight in without any lash change and our measurement showed that the FS4 are consistent. See the above numbers on Ivan's post.
So what we could be dealing with is ONE set of Franklin STG 4 that were measured to have a 0.005 difference from lobe to lobe? However other sets that have been measured have been consistent? Is this a fair summary? I have read all the Franklin type threads however there are that many different measurements and claims by different people its hard to decipher where the community is at with there conclusion on the Franklin Stg 4's.
I have read all the Franklin type threads however there are that many different measurements and claims by different people its hard to decipher where the community is at with there conclusion on the Franklin Stg 4's.
I understand your concern. I can't speak for the rest of the comunity but here you have two VE's with FS4 cams. 5speed and I are running FS4 cams. His measuremts are consistent with mine. I hope this helps.
I also had Arthur Mitchel measure this cam and if you dont know who he is then, ah well. The best welder and machinest in S FL. His family worked for Nasa. $ generations of Machinests. Grandfather worked for the US military making parts in WW2.
Ask anyone down here about these guys. Also the best welders I have ever seen.
.005 diffrence on some lobes.
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Calm down Charles, no need to take offense at my comments. Like I stated earlier, the point is all the FS4 are the same.
I'm sure if I sent you my FS4 exhaust cam you will probably get the same measurement as the one you measured. Our differences lies in the method of measurement and the true spec of the FS4 can only be determine by using a CamDoctor, which both of us don't have and are not using.
This is my method of measurement. For lobe lift, the dial indicator was place directly over the cam lobe, as you can see on the above pics. The dial indicator stand was bolted directly to the cylinder head so that will eliminate any slop. Some people use the magnet stand which is very inaccurate because the head is aluminum. For valve lift, the dial indicator was place parallel/inline with the valve angle. The tip of the dial indicator was place as close as possible to the center of the retainer. Once everything was tight, the engine was rotated and measurements were taken.
Just like the way I do things, measure twice cut once, I double check my measurements before posting.
I also had Arthur Mitchel measure this cam and if you dont know who he is then, ah well. The best welder and machinest in S FL. His family worked for Nasa. $ generations of Machinests. Grandfather worked for the US military making parts in WW2.
Ask anyone down here about these guys. Also the best welders I have ever seen.
.005 diffrence on some lobes.
It's funny how you changed your tone. This is your own quote.
"Also here is what I found out with the cams. there is a .005 in diffrence from lobe to lobe. This is a large diffrence for a cam."
I'm very curious as to how you and not someone else measure the cams. Since you never installed them in your engine.
And please spare me by not throwing out other people credential. I want to know your credential. How did you measure the cams?
Mind you, We've all witnessed Mr Miko capitulating a few times now; the STD springs that DON'T work above a certain rev is just ONE example...
The trouble when one opens one mouth due to ego or pride, or just to prove that they ARE the man! Or NOT as it seems to becoming more and more obvious....
The Franklin's dropped straight into my engine without the need for shims & were spot-on as well. Mount Smart Motorsport used the specs Franklin gave me and said the tolerances were fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivanx
For some reason the FS4 feel kind of like the 16VE cams on Yellow4g63 NX before it switches to hi cams. After that it pulls hard. Yellow and I went for a few freway runs yesterday and I left him behind every time. iam waiting for my resonanted test pipe to be done to dyno again.
This is what we find too but there have been comments that the S4s are only as good a SR16VE cams on a stock motor. The dyno obviously isn't telling the whole story then 'cause they hand it to SR16VE cams on the road.
Get on cam and the Franklins are animals but you need to grab your hairy bag & rev 'em to 9 (or higher) or you don't get the full goodness.
Ok, I don't want to make this into them vs. us argument. It will distract from our main purpose of testing cams. The numbers are there to help others in their cam choice. I'm not on an ego trip. Hell, if it was up to me, I would of kept all the info to myself. I'm just helping Ivanx and Yellow4g63 with their FS4 test, but when I see big differences I will point it out.
Here's something to consider. If there's a .005 difference between the base circles of the low and high cam, the high cam will never kick in. That's how important the base circle is for vvl and vtec. Back in the days when vtec first showed up in the states, some aftermarket cam manufacturers came out with their own reground vtec camshafts. At the dyno, their camshafts never produce any good numbers. At the time,they did'nt realize that by only regrinding the vtec lobe, and thereby altering the base circle, the pin could never lock in the three rocker arms, and so the high cam never took control. This is the same concept with the vvl. The base circles all have to be the same in order for the high cam to take over. Instead of a pin, the vvl has what I like to call "the middle shim". When the vvl solenoids are activated, oil pressure pushes the middle shim underneath the middle/high lobe rocker arm, and that in turn control the other rocker arms. The middle shim can only slide underneath the middle rocker arm when the cam lobes are on their base circles. If the base circles are off by .005, the high lobe cannot take over. In the end, it's safe to say that Ivanx has vvl because engine makes power all the way up to 9,600.
