Which Block to use with VE Head

unlimitedpower · 03-30-2010, 05:04 AM

Well im slowly piecing together parts for a RWD SR20VET build.
I really want to go with a DET block mainly for the extra oil squirters etc.

I have a couple questions here.

A S14 SR20DET RWD engine to use as a base = approx $2500 (loom ECU etc)
A S14 SR20DE RWD engine = approx $400 (with loom ECU etc)

I know its possible to add the oil squirters to a DE block but i can't really find any hard fast info on how this is done so i can guage and idea of the cost of doing it to work out if its going to be viable in the long run.
Ive searched about but can't find much info so if someone can point me in the right direction that would be great.

Next up i have been offered a S13 SR20DET RWD block now we all know that the S13 and S14 blocks are different because the S13 block doesn't have the extra oil passage for the VCT

Will this matter when doing a VE head swap?
Ive only really found info on people swapping VE heads onto S14 RWD blocks.

If anyone has any nice clear photos of a SR20VE block/head S13 SR20 Block/head and S14 SR20 block/head could you please post them up so i can compare them.

Thanks
Brett

10psigti · 03-30-2010, 05:44 AM

i would go with the s14 sr20de block as it already has the vtc and is way cheaper... then you could use the extra cash on beefing up the bottom end also if you use the s13 block you will have to drill it

Yellow4g63 · 03-30-2010, 04:08 PM

Put the oil jets into the DE block and use that. derrr nm. Use the S13 DET block it will be easier since it's been done. I think you have to do some machining of the front cover for the S14 block.

unlimitedpower · 03-31-2010, 12:31 AM

Becasue i don't have these blocks in front of me to look at i can't really tell whats involved.
On a DE block is the flat area there to allow for oil squirters or do these need to be milled first before the oil squirters can be fitted?
(anyone know a link to whats actually involved)
The thing about the S13 block im worried about is weather the VE head uses the extra VCT oil passage that S14 and S15 blocks have.

I need to see a clear photo of the underside of a VE head.

zx-5 · 03-31-2010, 01:27 AM

Hey Unlimitedpower where abouts are you located in NZ? im doing a similar build using an S14 block, i can take pictures of both the block and the VE head tonight if you like.

unlimitedpower · 03-31-2010, 01:33 AM

Hey mate im up north in Dargaville.
I'll PM you my email address if you could email the photos of the block and head mating surfaces that would be great. Also any advice that you might have or knowledge you've picked up along the way.

Cheers
Brett

unlimitedpower · 03-31-2010, 05:18 AM

This is the area on the block that im unsure if a VE head uses.
If it does line up with something on the VE head then the S13 block will be no good if it doesn't then the S13 block could be what im after.

Silviaivlis · 04-03-2010, 04:23 PM

Im wanting to do a similiar setup (RWD VE).

I would say the best block is what your going to build the car for and what kind of budget/availibility you have in your part of the world. I was going to do blacktop S13 block. Better oil squirter pattern and slightly beefed up compaired to retops or NA blocks. I have seen both RWD NA and DET S13 blocks and the oil sqirters are only a matter of finding oil squirters and getting the block drilled into the oil galleys in the same location as the DET (in other words, theyre the same block, just no oil squirters installed at the factory).

That being said, dont worry about the VTC oil galley because i dont believe its the same as the VE head anyway. (Could be wrong on this) But look into Mazworx VVL adapter plates. With those they relocate the VVL solenoids (to clear the firewall in RWD) and you dont need to worry about tapping the head/block like in a FWD VE headswap.

http://zilvia.net/f/advertiser-annou...w-you-can.html

http://www.mazworx.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=244

http://www.sr20-forum.com/turbo/1695...t-project.html

Or you can buy an entire RWD VVL head swap kit and call it a day. It will work for S13 DE or DET, S14 DE or DET and S15 DE or DET blocks with SR20ve, SR20ve 20v, and SR16ve heads. Pretty neat. Not cheap....

And dont forget youll need a 20v CAS and the appropriate ECU. Its also recommended getting a 20v valvecover so you can run 20v or S15 coilpacks. So, i would say, if your building a RWD VET, get a DET motor, then youll have more usable parts for your swap. Mazworx uses a reflashed DET ECU for their RWD VETs and a stand alone actuator to run the vvl.

Also remember that a VE head will raise your compression ratio, i dont remember exactly but i had it figured out a some point and time. Itll take it from 8.5:1 on a DET block to something like 9.3:1. now thats not entirely a bad thing, but something to concider if your wanting a huge turbo and tons of boost (even though that doesnt really stop most people).

Good luck on the build and i hope everything works out. I think its about time more people are interested in building RWD VVL motors.

-Joe

unlimitedpower · 04-03-2010, 10:26 PM

Yip going from photos of blocks ive looked at i don't think the S13 block will work. I know about the VVL oil gallery and having to drill the side of the head etc. But the galley i was talking about and in the photo is different again. To me going by photos only it looks like this lines up with the VE heads and the S14 S15 heads etc. And if the VE head as it there it must be there for a reason.

I have a 20V rocker cover and 20V CAS i also have a complete running S15 SR20DET i was just going to try avoid pulling that motor down as i'll prob fit that engine to my Datsun 140J (currently in my 160J) then build the VE engine for the 160J. Ive never heard of anyone actually running the S15 coils in a VE Head only ever in theory so today i will see if they will fit into the 20V cover. And go from there.

Im thinking the best way for me to go will be to buy a complete SR20DE engine loom ecu 5 speed box etc for approx $1000nz then get a complete (cut loom no ecu) SR20VE $650nz use the oil squirters from the VE and fit them to the RWD DE block. Find a Turbo crank (shouldn't be hard i have a mate who is top drifter in NZ just down the road from me im sure he should have at least one or two lying round) then build up from there.

The Maz works stuff will be next on my list to collect also a Greddy MSS

Yellow4g63 · 04-03-2010, 10:30 PM

http://forums.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=192893 you might want to do some research if you don't think the S13 block will work.

STR8E180 · 04-03-2010, 10:36 PM

im using S14 block because i had one laying around but that doesnt mean a S13 block wont work

u can use both S13 and S14/S15 blocks

im using a sr20v cylinder head and all i did to the block was weld up the oil gallery in the block and then surface decked the block so every thing was flat

in this picture u can still slightly see the oil gallery if u look hard enuff

STR8E180 · 04-03-2010, 10:43 PM

if ur going to use a ve oil pump u will need to modify the crank pully by milling the back of the pully to clear the oil pump

the other option is to machine a spacer to sit behind on crank pully on the crank shaft itself which is what i done because i didnt want to mill down my crank pully

this is the spacer i had machined up

the spacer i had machined up is in the middle and the standard sr20det one is on the right hand side

unlimitedpower · 04-04-2010, 05:05 PM

Cheers for your very helpful information,
Ive taken your pic and put an arrow towards the oil gallery that im talking about. The S13 DET block ive looked at doesn't have this gallery but the VE head does seem to have a hole that lines up with it.

ON a side note i have test fit S15 coil packs and the fit the 20V valve cover perfectly the bolt holes to line them up fit just fine to.
What i haven't done is fit the cover to a VE head then tried the coils so there maybe a length issue but im just hoping that they will fit perfectly.

With the spacer did this affect how your belts lined up? Because i figure if you use a spacer it will move the crank pulley forwards and if you machine the pulley it would move the pulley back.

Or for example is it machine DET pulley OR space the VE pulley?

I must add thats a very tidy looking block you have there.
What compression ratio are you aiming for and what sort of pistons are those?
Any other specs on your block?
I will use aftermarket rods and forged pistons (not sure on brand compression ratio though will talk with a mate of mine whos built some very reliable high powered SR20s and ask him). Doubt i'll go as far as sleeveing the block

STR8E180 · 04-04-2010, 08:23 PM

on the ve cylinder head u got where does the gallery lead to ?
i know of a few people here in australia running s13 blocks with there ve heads so im sure it can be done

about the coil packs
i bought my sr20vet as a half cunt and it came with coil packs
i the s15 coil packs look any thing like this then they will fit

the spacer is machined up to the perfect thickness
basically what i did was machine it up so it would be the same thickness as the sr20det gear which sits behind the pully

the reason u need to machine it down is because the sr20v and sr20det both run different timing chains, so u need the length of the sr20ve but the gear of the sr20det so u can use ur sr20det cam gears
and i wanted to use my sr20det cam gears because i have adjustable HKS items
here i what it looks like standard
sr20det on the left / sr20vet on the right

the crank pully ends up sitting just like it would with a standard sr20det oil pump sitting behind it

if u dont want to go threw all this u can just mill the back of the balancer
i just didnt want to lighten my balancer

my compression ratio is 9.5:1 and my brand of piston is brain crower

details of my block can be found here http://powertune.com.au/projectcars-180sx.html

for more details of the whole car it can be found here http://www.nissansilvia.com/forums/i...owtopic=391664

unlimitedpower · 04-04-2010, 10:28 PM

Cheers mate.
Your pics and info and have helped out heaps with my understanding of the conversion.
yip what you have looks identical to my S15 coil packs.
Now i understand the process with the spacer etc.

S15 coil packs are extremely expensive even second hand i'd hate to think what new ones would be worth.

Oh and also i don't have a VE head yet. SR20VE engines arnt overly hard to find in NZ and as its a bit of a long term project im collecting other bits and pieces which are harder to find. Like the CAS Valve cover coil packs etc.
Then when the time comes i'll pick up a complete SR20VE and jump into it.

STR8E180 · 04-04-2010, 10:38 PM

the P11 ve engines arnt to find over here but the P12 engines are still very rare and well sort after

good luck with ur project

unlimitedpower · 04-05-2010, 03:47 PM

Yea for sure P11 easy to fine P12 very very hard to find here to. But thats ok as i have the P12 20V CAS and Valve cover so that side is kinda sorted i can live with out the little extra benefits of the P12 head, and just use the P11 head.
Thanks for your help and advice.

Silviaivlis · 04-05-2010, 04:33 PM

Just look into Mazworx kit, its got everything your going to need for a bolt in application for any RWD SR block. Modified coolant pipes, VVL relocation bracket and even a modified oil pick up to use thier milled and decked N1 oil pump. its an all inclusive kit. No guesswork, no fabrication (especially which dampner to use) nothing, just bolt on. It is the only kit on the market and looks pretty good, concidering thier using it in thier 1600hp drag s15....

Good luck with the build.

-Joe

unlimitedpower · 04-06-2010, 02:48 AM

Yip ive looked into there kit and talked to them about a couple of options.
There kit doesn't include a 20V CAS which is required (or you can make your own from the SR20VE dizzy)
I will be purchasing some items from them in the future.

unlimitedpower · 10-17-2010, 03:03 PM

Well to bring this back up.
I had a bit of a test fit today and found a couple of things.
I dummy fit a SR16VE crank into my S13DET block and with the
SR16 Crank, oil pump, crank pulley. Im sure things work out and line up,

Is there any reason i can't use the FWD Crank pulley, Water pump and Alternator?
That way everything should line up shouldn't it (no spacers or machining) I don't need AC or PS as its going into a 73 Datsun 710

Im just not 100% on the timing chain part of it, It looks to be sitting in the right place.

IM guessing that a FWD SR20DE crank will be interchangeable with a SR16VE one to give me the exact same setup but with the 2L capacity. (i just didn't have a SR20 one to try).