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Hello all..
Going back to racing sentras after some time off with GM V8's and VG v6's
Thought I would do a change of pace over the ordinary DE + cams headers racefuel etc.. and install a stockish VE and be done with it.
Car Normal prepped PTE B13. I'm good with the car, have questions concerning the engine.
Engine
Don't want over 165 whp... I would like to get it Dyno reclassed with a 165whp number.
Is the 165 whp goal too high for a stock engine with Stock header, no cat, race exhaust, standard intake, no power steering.
What are ways to get these engines tq up without raising the peak hp?
Just curious about what you guys have found with past dynos.
Any things different when roadracing a VE over a DE?
165 is pretty easy to get at the wheels with your setup. Do not rev over 7.5K with the stock cams or you will have issues with valve float. Can't speak for racing a stock VE on the track but on my other B13 VE with N1s I was giving the Honda S2000 guys the beating they didn't expect. With stock VE cams your midrange will be pretty nice with peak power on the high cam at 6.8-7.2K. Using cam gears on stock VE cams for more torque may be something to consider but no one has done it that has posted any results. I wouldn't do it. Too bad your class is limited to 165 whp, you're missing out on the true potential of a track VE stock internals or with mild mods.
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91 SE-R VE road racer
94 SE-R VE garage queen
87 Hardbody King Cab V6 daily
Thanks, got the engine and car in the shop, just need to find time to work on it.
Race 1 in Feb 2012. Time to get moving.
I'll try to document and post the build as well as dyno's. If your really bored you can read the NASA PT rules here... http://www.performancetouring.com//
The reason I want to do the VE...
Stock and pump gas.
We have several DE's running race fuel, cams springs $$$ headers etc.. making ~165whp. I got the VE for the price of a set of cams and springs for a de. and the stock factor should keep it reliable. PT rules state "You can swap whatever you want into it. It will be classed based on Dynojet model maximum dynamometer hp and tq readings, and the minimum competition weight with driver. All requests must be sent to me by e-mail once the correct numbers are known."
Given my target weight and class I would like to cap at 165.
I am pretty sure I have an old set of adj. cam gears in the shop, I may play around with them...
Another good thing is the 165 whp of the VE will be delivered over a broader than a DE due to the compression ratio and dual cam profiles. Also it will have a noticeably punchier low end and midrange. You should go over 165whp with the full bolt-ons.
Got my "official" email regarding HP for PTE below if your bored.
Did manage to get the engine in last week but kids/work/life have gotten in the way of fiishing it up.
Little concerned about hp as many of you stated that you made above 165 stock...
I may have to choke the thing. I CANNOT make over 165....see below...
Your '91 Nissan Sentra SE-R with a maximum 160 fwhp on a Dynojet, and a minimum competition weight with driver of 2420 lbs, will have a new TT/PT base class of TTE/PTE. Your new base tire size is 235mm. You will not assess modification points for Section B weight reduction or Section C. engine mods. However, all other modifications, including transmission and LSD, that are not standard items on a base trim '91 Nissan Sentra SE-R must be assessed points. You must be compliant with the above listed maximum Dynojet hp and minimum competition weight during any tech inspection.
This option may only be used with a PTE/TTE or higher Final Competition Class.
Or,
Your '91 Nissan Sentra SE-R with a maximum 165 fwhp on a Dynojet, and a minimum competition weight with driver of 2500 lbs, will have a new TT/PT base class of TTE/PTE. Your new base tire size is 235mm. You will not assess modification points for Section B weight reduction or Section C. engine mods. However, all other modifications, including transmission and LSD, that are not standard items on a base trim '91 Nissan Sentra SE-R must be assessed points. You must be compliant with the above listed maximum Dynojet hp and minimum competition weight during any tech inspection.
This option may only be used with a PTE/TTE or higher Final Competition Class.
a built de at 165whp will rape a choked out detuned 165whp ve.
you should know this if you race cars or are familiar with motors.
stratton.
Interesting comment....
I value your opinion about 165hp DE being more powerful than a 165hp VE
I have not seen dynos to tell the story one way or the other. This is good to know.
However the comment about how I should know this???
Not sure how my 14 years of racing cars or my familiarity (or lack of as you suggest) of motors would magically tell me this???
I don't know a thing about a VE. If I did I would not have posted here.
I have not found a dyno chart of a stock VE to overlay on a cammed DE.
Like I stated, I want a reliable non racegas cheap motor. A 165HP reliable DE is not cheap to build or cheap to run.
Going to definitely disagree on the 165 whp DE beating a 165 whp VE. The DE will have horrible low-mid power due to the cams compared to the VE. The VE can also maintain that power over a broad band which is exactly what you want for a detuned class. The 165 whp DE will be pretty peaky then drop off quickly in comparison.
The way to go for a power limited class is set the motor up to make about 10-20 whp more, then detune the peak heavily to flatten the powerband and give you maximum power for the most amount of revs. Shift so your gear spread is in the middle of this power plateau (i.e. peak power is at 6-7k RPM, shift at 7500 if you fall down to 5.5k RPM on the next gear change etc.).
I think I'd also install some 100 lb seat Supertech valve springs if you can just so you can hold a gear a little longer without shifting. This is worth quite a bit of time on some tracks where your gearing is just barely not matched up for the end of a couple of straights.
a built de at 165whp will rape a choked out detuned 165whp ve.
you should know this if you race cars or are familiar with motors.
stratton.
Yes in a straight line at WOT for the first 4 gears this is true. The worked DE will pull on the stock-ish VE all day.
If you have part throttle conditions with a lot of low and mid-range and downshifts the VE with the smaller cam profile and increased compression should have a significant advantage.
What does a race between an SR20VE and K20 car have to do with this(wasn't that first car a VE?)? The SR20DE P10 got BLOWN AWAY right at the beginning of what you linked. So again, SR20VE car is going to BLOW AWAY an equally "peak powered" SR20DE just because it's going to make that peak power for longer.
I've got to ask - how much peak power limited stuff do you have experience with? It doesn't sound like much at all... The faster engine is ALWAYS the one that's detuned and makes the peak power limit for more revs.
Your '91 Nissan Sentra SE-R with a maximum 160 fwhp on a Dynojet, and a minimum competition weight with driver of 2420 lbs, will have a new TT/PT base class of TTE/PTE. Your new base tire size is 235mm. You will not assess modification points for Section B weight reduction or Section C. engine mods. However, all other modifications, including transmission and LSD, that are not standard items on a base trim '91 Nissan Sentra SE-R must be assessed points. You must be compliant with the above listed maximum Dynojet hp and minimum competition weight during any tech inspection.
This option may only be used with a PTE/TTE or higher Final Competition Class.
Or,
Your '91 Nissan Sentra SE-R with a maximum 165 fwhp on a Dynojet, and a minimum competition weight with driver of 2500 lbs, will have a new TT/PT base class of TTE/PTE. Your new base tire size is 235mm. You will not assess modification points for Section B weight reduction or Section C. engine mods. However, all other modifications, including transmission and LSD, that are not standard items on a base trim '91 Nissan Sentra SE-R must be assessed points. You must be compliant with the above listed maximum Dynojet hp and minimum competition weight during any tech inspection.
This option may only be used with a PTE/TTE or higher Final Competition Class.
How is it that you get to make more power than stock, and run at a lighter weight? Why do I have a bad feeling that before long everyone is going to have to go this route?
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91 NX2k hard top (track whore) Celebrating 14 years of ownership!
93 SE-R (street/track toy) Overkill is just about right
93 SE-R (daily driver) 221k and counting!
How to make a small fortune in motorsports - start with a large one. ~ Carroll Smith
How is it that you get to make more power than stock, and run at a lighter weight? Why do I have a bad feeling that before long everyone is going to have to go this route?
Its exactly the same quote given to Harper.
I did not go this route for any other reason than affordability.
If it ends up being a performance advantage, these motors are under a grand.
I am even running used tires this season.
It just doesn't add up to me. More power, more tire, and less weight. When I added up the points for my E car, and then added up the points for the "VE" esque engine in my other car, I end up well into D. FWIW though my 11.2:1 VE pistoned car puts 170 to the wheels on a crappy tune.
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