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Old 11-02-2004, 10:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
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HOW TO: Install a daughterboard in a B13/S13 etc. ECU (long)

THIS IS OLD. THE INSTALLATION PROCEDURE IS CORRECT, BUT All REFERENCES AND PICTURES OF THE DAUGHTERBOARD ARE VERY VERY OUT OF DATE


If you have questions about anything other than hardware (i.e. rom tuning, etc.), please post them in a new thread. I'd like to keep this thread devoted to simply installing a daughterboard. If you don't know what this is for, search, but basically this lets you run a different rom than the stock one. The stock rom is contained the rightmost of the three big chips on the ecu. Rather than replacing this chip a board is added in to the connector on the top of the ecu. Also a jumper must be set to tell the ecu to read from the daughterboard and not the stock rom. This is exactly what JWT etc do when you buy a "tuned" ecu (except for Mine's, on some ecus they actually replace the stock chip).

I'm going to assume your reading this because your interested in modding lots of ecus, and you know how to solder but have limited experience. If you just want a daughterboard added to a single ecu its probably cheaper to pay someone else to do it (like me!). Its not hard but it really helps to have the right tools for the job and they cost money.

A quick note about daughterboards... there are several brands of these out there, but you may have to do a little hunting to find them. Most are Japanese or Australian, but several companies now ship to the US. There are even importers on Ebay that resell them. Different boards have complications like even/odd burning, etc, and you need to be familiar with how your particular board works. The board being installed in this tutorial is a basic board that holds just one rom image burned straight up. One last thing, if your planning on updating the roms I highly recommend you get a daughterboard that 1) uses ZIF sockets and 2) uses EEPROMs. Number 2 you can upgrade yourself, number 1 your stuck with. Also, if your looking for a rom burner I recommend the USB flash burner from www.moates.net for $85.

So lets get started. First off you need the following: Daughterboard and connector (duh!), through-hole solder rework station, drill with "hammer" setting, acetone, and basic hand tools. If your wondering what a through-hole rework station is, its a special kind of solder tool that has an air pump in the center of its tip, so you can melt then remove the solder. Heres mine, the regular tip is on the left and the solder sucker is on the right:



...and a closeup of the solder sucker, because pictures go farther than words. The hole in the tip is where the solder gets sucked up.



So heres my work area with my tools laid out:



First remove the holder from the ecu. I like to remove the ecu+holder from the car, it just seems easiest that way for me. Next remove the top and bottom of the ecu. This is what you need the drill with the "hammer" setting. Nissan glues the damn screws in and they're really soft, so if you use a screwdriver you'll end up stripping about every other screw. FYI if you do strip them use a 1/8th drill bit to drill them out. I haven't stripped any since moving to the hammer drill method, way cool.

Okay, so heres the ecu with both sides off. I've circled the header position at the top where you need to remove the old solder and add your new header.



...and a close-up of the header:



The jumper is on the back of the board. Its not like a PC jumper, its actually soldered in place. Its in the position marked 'CJ1' and right next to it you'll see a spot marked 'CJ2'. You need to move the jumper from CJ1 to CJ2.



But lets start with the header. First there is a sealant on the board you need to remove. I gently wash it with acetone then rub away the sealant. Be sure to get both sides and the jumper in both positions too. Make sure the acetone is dry before the solder (duh!).



Heres what it looks like when you remove the sealant. Its real hard to see, but if you notice on the top end of the connector you can see where I've removed the sealant.



Now use the solder sucker and remove the old solder. Usually most will come out, but some holes are really stubborn, like the ones below. On these holes add new solder until it makes a nice bubble, then suck it out. Get all the holes nice and clean.



...ready to add the header (oh so clean!):



Now just add the header. Start from the top left and work right, then do the lower row. This is so your iron isn't over any spot you just soldered.



Now lets move to the jumper. If you've got a smt solder tool (they look like a pair of tweezers) this is easy. If not, use two irons, one on each side, and gently pry up the little sucker. Don't worry if you destroy it, replacelents are cheap or a little bit of wire will work in a jiffy. Its glued to the board so it can be a b*tch to get loose sometimes. Remove the excess solder first with your solder sucker then pry away. Heres it moved over, I'm holding one end in place with an exacto knife while I solder the other end. This helps to keep it from moving on you.



Now you just insert your daughter board and your done, right?



Well, it depends on the board. JWT makes theres big enough to bolt into the mounting tabs on the edge of the ecu, but boards that size are expensive and a waste of space. Most Japanese boards just stay attached by the header and thats generally good enough. I compromised, and use a mounting hole in the center of my board to mount a nylon stand off. Then I put a small dab of epoxy on the bottom of the board and glue it to the ecu.



...and heres it completed (ok, so this is an older prototype). That board isn't going anywhere, its in there really tight!



Any questions, I'll try to answer them as best I can. If your looking for a B14 board, I'm working on it, give me a couple of months. I don't know of any off the shelf boards you can use.

EDIT

In response to questions PM'd to me:

Question: Could you put a switch on the CJ1 CJ2 jumper positions and toggle between the stock rom and your tuned version?

Answer: Yes, but why go to that trouble? Just use a daughterboard that can support multiple images and make one image the stock rom. Don't have the stock rom? No worries, I've been collecting stock roms for a while, I'll be happy to post them. If you want the rom from your specific ecu you can dump it via the consult port or mail me the ecu and I'll do it for you.

Question: Is there a daughterboard that I can plug my laptop into and flash the roms without removing them from the car?

Answer: Yes! See my vendor section, Realtime ECU!
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Old 12-14-2004, 04:00 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Do you need a B14 ecu to play with? I have an extra!
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Old 12-14-2004, 09:47 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I've got a couple already, but thanks. I won't get to work on a B14 board until after Christmas, but keep your eyes peeled in Janurary. I'll post in the rom tuning forum when I get the first batch of beta units up and running.
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Old 12-14-2004, 01:37 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I've got a couple already, but thanks. I won't get to work on a B14 board until after Christmas, but keep your eyes peeled in Janurary. I'll post in the rom tuning forum when I get the first batch of beta units up and running.
Awesome! My only concern is learning to tune with this software....Its hard for me to understand the fuel map tables.

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Old 01-02-2005, 05:50 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Hey I'll give you a tip on getting the solider out of the holes easier. Flow them by heating them with an iron and adding just a touch of solider. Repeat that across each joint then go back with your solider sucker and and pull the solider out you can turn your sucker up closer to 800*. This process will be safer for the board because less heat will be absobed across it.
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Old 01-03-2005, 01:09 AM   #6 (permalink)
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any chance that a P10 and P11 daughterboard will be in the works in the near future?? Id be interested in one for my P11...let me know

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Old 01-03-2005, 01:49 AM   #7 (permalink)
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P10 and B13 ECU's are essentially the same.
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Old 01-03-2005, 03:02 AM   #8 (permalink)
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so then it would be possible to get the upgrade, since a p10 ecu can be swapped into my P11....hmmmm interesting, also, Calum how much do you charge for this process and what programs can you load onto the daughter board??
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Old 01-03-2005, 08:00 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Calum how much are 2 daughter boards from you?
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Old 01-07-2005, 02:14 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Calum this is an incredible writeup.

One query - this looks like a standard 40 pin PC IDE connection (Hard drive and CD-ROM Drive). For easier swapability, has anyone considered maybe attaching a long IDE cable to the connector on the ECU so you can change chips outside of the actual ECU box. Essentially extending the daughter board to the outside of the ECU if you will.
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Old 01-08-2005, 12:20 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Az99G20t
so then it would be possible to get the upgrade, since a p10 ecu can be swapped into my P11....hmmmm interesting, also, Calum how much do you charge for this process and what programs can you load onto the daughter board??
No. P10 is OBD1, P11 is OBD2. You can't put a P10 ECU into a P11.
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Old 01-08-2005, 12:20 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walrusx4
Calum this is an incredible writeup.

One query - this looks like a standard 40 pin PC IDE connection (Hard drive and CD-ROM Drive). For easier swapability, has anyone considered maybe attaching a long IDE cable to the connector on the ECU so you can change chips outside of the actual ECU box. Essentially extending the daughter board to the outside of the ECU if you will.
You can do that if you want. It is actually how JWT mounts their boards.
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Old 01-08-2005, 01:16 PM   #13 (permalink)
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No. P10 is OBD1, P11 is OBD2. You can't put a P10 ECU into a P11.
Actually it can be done....well with an ecu from a 94-96 P10....heres a link that shows how to do it....http://www.g20style.com/how_to_wire_a_95.htm
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Old 01-17-2005, 09:31 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walrusx4
Calum this is an incredible writeup.

One query - this looks like a standard 40 pin PC IDE connection (Hard drive and CD-ROM Drive). For easier swapability, has anyone considered maybe attaching a long IDE cable to the connector on the ECU so you can change chips outside of the actual ECU box. Essentially extending the daughter board to the outside of the ECU if you will.
Sorry, I didn't see your question or I would have responded earlier. The daughterboard in the picture actually has the right side trimmed in order to fit (the oscillator is in the way). Here's a pic of one untrimmed:



Notice that it has four mounting holes on the edges. This is for doing exactly what you describe, and yes, it works great. Oh, you need the right kind of IDE cable though, some have the center pin filled it. If you want to mount a daughterboard like this I can supply the right cable part number from digikey, although they sell them for about $20.
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Old 03-22-2005, 12:25 PM   #15 (permalink)
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After you switch the jumper is there anything else you need to do to make your ecu know its there? Because I fried a resistor on my jwt programmed ecu and then my friend Nick unsoldered the jwt daughterboard and soldered it to my stock ecu. We ran it and got code 5,5 which is normal engine operation, I talked to you and you gave me this link so we then switched the jumper but not sure if the one side is making a good contact. We then ran it again same thing. Also tested my cobar maf and its good, but still reads 2.58 when idling and KOEO. Is there anyway to check to make sure the jumper is making a good connection?
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Old 03-22-2005, 03:45 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Use a multimeter to check continuity across the jumper.
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Old 04-05-2005, 05:57 PM   #17 (permalink)
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hello ppl,

i have a greek SR20 ECU. Today i used consult to extract the roms from my ecu with success. Then i used rom editor to alter just the revlimit and i fitted the daughterboard correctly in the 40 pin side of the ecu as it is described. when i tryed to start the car again it run at safe mode.
i checked the alignment of the pins again to make sure they were right, i also checked the jumber from cj1 to cj2 it was alright too, but the car didnt start at all.
A friend who programs ECUS told me that the checksum of the orininal rom, with the checksum of the tuned rom where different, and that may be a reason why the car doesnt start. IS this true? have anybody face such a problem?
Furthermore, my Greek ECU had the stock program not from 0000 - 7ffff, but from 8000 to ffff stock. Do i have to burn the chips to the same addresses(8000 - ffff)?
Do you have any ideas what to do , so i can make the car run right with the modded ECU? i would appreciate some help here.

thanks in advance for your answers

alex29

Last edited by alex29 : 04-05-2005 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 04-06-2005, 05:00 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Calum, i was wonder are you working on the B14 ecu or that isn't something that will be going into effect at all?
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Old 05-04-2005, 08:52 PM   #19 (permalink)
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an ve programs ready to go..just drop in and haul ass like the jwt ecu?
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Old 05-13-2005, 01:43 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Any info on the b14 ECU?
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