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Old 10-08-2003, 11:45 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Turbo FAQ

Alright, we're gonna try this again... let's keep it going and get all the info we need this time...

Alright kids, we're gonna do a little turbo FAQ here for the new members, old members, stupid members. So let's bring up some topics that we would like to see in the FAQ, and then we will go from there as far as organizing it into one document.

I think some good things to put in it would be differences between the DET motors, what parts can be used off of RWD DET's, engine management options, Z32/Cobra MAF stuff, etc.

I'll start it off and add to it as more people comment (correct me if I'm wrong on anything; I'm pretty new to it myself).


Glossary

CHRA = center housing rotating assembly or a turbo without the compressor and exhaust housing but complete from compressor blade to exhaust blade.

Compressor Inducer = smaller diameter of compressor blade (inlet from the air filter)

Compressor Exducer = larger diameter of the compressor blade (outlet to intercooler}

Turbine Inducer = larger diameter of exhaust blade (inlet from the manifold)

Turbine Exducer = smaller diameter of exhaust blade (outlet to exhaust)

Inducer = inlet

Exducer = outlet

A/R= Aspect Ratio or Area / Radius =Different people say different things but basically it is the area of the housing divided by the radius of the housing. As the housing A/R factor increases numerically so does it's potential to induce or exduce a specific volume .

Wastegate (W/G)= Vacuum dependent device used to limit boost by drawing exhaust flow away from the turbine blade. This is done near or before the inducer of the exhaust blade.

Internal Wastegate = This type of wastegate is an integral part of the exhaust housing. It consist of a flapper door inside of the exhaust housing that is controlled by a vacuum/boost referenced actuator valve that is attached to the compressor housing. Most OE manufacturers use this type of setup because it is cheap and there are no fitment problems like those of external wastegates. Because of the flapper door size this type of wastegate is not efficient at high boost levels . Since it can not relieve enough exhaust flow to maintain the maximum boost setting boost creep will sometimes occur when driven hard. Most actuators are preset from the factory with max a boost level that can not be adjusted unless a boost control device is added .There are aftermarket racing actuators on the market have an adjustable rod that allows for boost level changes.

External Wastegate = This type of wastegate is also vacuum/boost referenced but it is separate entity from the turbine section. External wastegates are connected in many different ways but the most efficient method is to connect it with it's own section of piping near the collector flange of the manifold. This type of connection will allow exhaust flow to be drawn from all primary tubes equally. Of course this type can not be applied to all street cars because of the space limitation factor. The physical size of the wastegate valve, which is 35mm or larger for small external wastegates, and connection point makes the external W/G a better choice for mild to wild setups. If the the dump tube for the W/G is to be routed back into the exhaust piping for a closed loop setup it is best to make the tube as long as possible. Flow from the W/G tube that is re-entered back into the exhaust too early can cause a restriction in flow by creating back pressure.

Manual Boost Controller (MBC) = Commonly called VVC (variable valve controller), VBC (variable boost controller) and a couple other unique names. MBC are mechanical devices plumbed between the W/G and it's vacuum/boost source. Basically the MBC will manipulate the vacuum/boost signal to the actuator valve or wastegate. Everything from fish tank valves to reducer T's are used as MBC's. MBC's should be mounted as close as possible to the wastegate to prevent problems that can be caused by using long vacuum lines and it will prevent you from cranking up the boost every time someone spanks your butt.. The main drawback of MBC's is the W/G will begin to open as soon as boost registers even though an MBC has been an properly installed. This premature opening acts almost like an exhaust leak and can hamper the low and mid range performance of your engine.

Electronic Boost Controller (EBC) = Also referred to as EVC (Electronic Valve controller). EBC's use a solenoid box controlled by an ECU. The best EBC's use Fuzzy Logic programming to control the boost and give features that help traction handicapped turbo cars. Unlike the MBC the EBC holds the w/g completely closed until the preset boost level is reached and then it opens completely until the throttle is closed. This feature allows for more low-end and midrange power that may have been lost when using an MBC. Some EBC's can also be setup to use a scramble boost (SB) setting. SB holds the boost at a preset low boost level for a preset amount of time and then it automatically changes to the high boost setting of your choice. Other features of EBC's include gear based boost levels, rpm based boost levels and hi/lo settings.

Blow Off Valve (BOV) = vacuum/boost sourced device plumbed between the throttle plate and compressor outlet used to prevent a boosted charge from back pedaling it's way to the exducer of the compressor when the throttle is closed (also known as Back Charge or Negative Charge). BOV's allow the charged flow to be expelled to the open atmosphere (EPA doesn't like this) or be re-circulated back into the inducer side of the compressor. On OE turbo setups this called a re-circulator valve. The re-circulated flow will aid the spool up on street cars that have a problem with turbo lag and it is stealthier because the psst sound of the BOV will not be heard. Without a BOV or re-circulator valve the back pedaling negative charge will cause the thrust bearing of the turbo to fail or it can cause the shaft to break if high boost levels are being used.

Glossary curteousy Charlie2020

What are the differences in the different SR20DET engines?

GTI-R
8.3:1 Compression
Quad Throttle bodies
444cc injectors
T28 turbo
TMIC

U12 Bluebird
8.5:1
370cc injectors
T25 turbo
TMIC (I think)

U13 Bluebird
8.5:1
370cc injectors
T25 turbo
FMIC (I think)

Avenir W11
8.5:1
370cc injectors
T25 turbo (ball bearing)
FMIC

The Coveted SR20VET
9.0:1
???cc injectors
?? turbo
TMIC
Keep in mind, this 276hp engine is nearly impossible to get over here.

What is 3bar and 4bar? What is stock?

Fuel Pressure using approx. 1 bar = 14.7psi
3 bar = 44.1psi
4 bar = 58.8psi

Stock Fuel Pressure for SE-R, NX2000, SE, SE-L = 3 bar

Upgrades needed for 4 bar - Fuel pressure Regulator, Fuel gauge, Engine management upgrade (SAFC, ECU, etc)

What are the specs on xxxxx Turbo?

http://importnut.net/turbosizing.htm

Some opinions on turbo selection:

What guages should I get? Where do I hook up the oil pressure guage?
Boost and oil pressure are the first two on my list. Next, water temp. Maybe EGT. A/F is a total waste unless you buy a nice wideband (~$600+). As for where to hook up the oil pressure, do it at the stock oil pressure sender location and the Nissport adaptor comes in handy there.
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Old 10-08-2003, 11:47 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Does anyone where I can get replacement oil and water lines (braided)?

(all part numbers for summitracing.com)

Oil supply line
12mmx1.25 to -3AN union adapter-----GDR-30506M12P

Pre terminated -3AN hose with one 90* end (change the last 2 digits for length in inches....for a stock location turbo you should only need 12")----EAR-63011712

-3 AN To 7/16 -24IF union adapter---- EAR-591932

Water supply (the small tube coming off the thermostat housing, retaining the bit of rubber hose)

1/4" hose barb to 1/8" NPT union adapter----EAR-984004

1/8" NPT female coupler----RUS-661440

1/8" NPT to -6AN union adapter----EAR-981662

-6AN straight hose end----EAR-800106

-6AN hose(this is for a 3 foot section which will cover both the supply and return)----EAR-403006

-6AN 90* hose end----EAR-809006

-6AN to 14mm x 1.5 union adapter----EAR-991954

Water return

-6AN to 14mm x 1.5 union adapter----EAR-991954

-6AN 90* hose end----EAR-809006

-6AN hose(see above)----EAR-403006

6AN 45* hose end----EAR-804506

-6AN to 14mm x 1.5 union adapter----EAR-991954

Courtesy Sirnixalot

What is the difference between x and y boost controller?

http://splparts.com/doc/tech/EBC.htm
This site has some good info on boost controllers.

Last edited by El Gabito; 08-24-2004 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 10-08-2003, 12:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
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http://splparts.com/doc/tech/EBC.htm good info on EBC's here.
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Old 12-03-2003, 11:37 AM   #4 (permalink)
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1 bar = 14.5 psi
1 atm = 14.7 psi
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Old 11-18-2005, 11:04 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I currently have a sr20de, if I buy a turbo kit for it, will it bolt onto an sr20ve when I do the swap?
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Old 01-18-2006, 11:28 PM   #6 (permalink)
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is the fuel pressure the same on DE engines as DET(including the GTi-R DET)?????
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Old 01-19-2006, 01:31 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exclucid
I currently have a sr20de, if I buy a turbo kit for it, will it bolt onto an sr20ve when I do the swap?
search under big john..it will bolt onto the block but ur still going to have to drill/tap the block.
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Old 01-19-2006, 01:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by lilzaneboy69
is the fuel pressure the same on DE engines as DET(including the GTi-R DET)?????
the det's might be higher depending on ur fuel pump
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Old 02-09-2006, 12:20 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I gotta Q about the GTi_R motors

what is with the specialty clutches and underdrive pulleys for GTi-Rs in the aftermarket? arent they all the same between DE's, (avenir and blackbird) DET's and the GTi-R DET?

I always thought the only diff between the blocks and internals were the oil pumps/ oil squirters and beefier rods and bearing caps.

The GTi-R also has a mechanical valvetrain. anything else that isn't posted above?

somewhere on one of the nissan forums or sites, i thought I saw a list of all the diffs between all the motors, but I can't find it now.

I'm looking into a GTi-R DET, but all the "special for GTi_R only" aftermarket parts have me thinking my knowledge of my DE and DETs in general is worthless

I'm also curious as to the electronics/ wiring harness mods required for the swap.

EDIT: i found this in the "turbo" forum:
coalitionSE-L has created this website

http://www.roastedpavement.com/forum

this seem to have slot of questions answered

thanks coalition! love the grandma giving the shocker avatar!
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Last edited by 98SE(-R); 02-09-2006 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 02-09-2006, 12:41 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98SE(-R)
I gotta Q about the GTi_R motors

what is with the specialty clutches and underdrive pulleys for GTi-Rs in the aftermarket? arent they all the same between DE's, (avenir and blackbird) DET's and the GTi-R DET?

I always thought the only diff between the blocks and internals were the oil pumps/ oil squirters and beefier rods and bearing caps.

The GTi-R also has a mechanical valvetrain. anything else that isn't posted above?

somewhere on one of the nissan forums or sites, i thought I saw a list of all the diffs between all the motors, but I can't find it now.

I'm looking into a GTi-R DET, but all the "special for GTi_R only" aftermarket parts have me thinking my knowledge of my DE and DETs in general is worthless

I'm also curious as to the electronics/ wiring harness mods required for the swap.
Good idea, The info in the list of motors that I now take care of should be listed in this FAQ also; http://www.sr20forum.com/sr20de-technical-corner/132608-sr20de-t-compression-headcode-list.html
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Old 02-09-2006, 07:12 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I'm turbo charging my sr20de. I'm only wanting to push 60 to 70 hp I have a t25 from a 98 eclipse. What kind of fuel managment do I need if any? Should I use my stock injectors and fuel pump?
Please help me on this.
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Old 02-09-2006, 11:18 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real LINK23
I'm turbo charging my sr20de. I'm only wanting to push 60 to 70 hp I have a t25 from a 98 eclipse. What kind of fuel managment do I need if any? Should I use my stock injectors and fuel pump?
Please help me on this.
You need to help yourself before anyone else is going to. Please do some reading, here, www.turbochargedse-r.com ,and www.se-r.net.

Ditch the sh*t turbo and get a nice Bluebird or Avenier turbo setup.
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Old 02-10-2006, 10:03 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Thanks,
I was but the price diff was to high. for 1100 I can turbo at 8psi(which is all I was wanting) on stock pistons and rods. I have a custom side mount intercooler from a eclipse mounted into my engine bay where my battery tray used to be. And Zex intercooler spray. A custom fabricated manifold, HKS ssqv, s-afc1 all thanks to the help at AJ customs of Sevierville TN.

I just want to have a good set up that will last a while for a decent price. I only want around the 205-210 hp range.

Last edited by The Real LINK23; 02-10-2006 at 10:50 PM.
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Old 02-23-2006, 04:21 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I've searched everywhere and cant find any info on this so can you help please?

I've got a UK Almera gti sr20de and im gona turbo it using the t25bb extreme kit from the link below. I want to run it at about 9psi. Do you think i can bolt it straight on without lowering the compression or would i have to fit forged pistons, thicker h/gasket and run it off an emanage

http://www.importperformanceparts.ne...ec_nissan.html
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Old 02-24-2006, 01:42 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I just bought an sr20det today, it is a u13, and i have a lot of questions about the swap, i have a problem the u13 is of an automatic car( i was so exiting wene i was geting it i didint notice wene i was buying it until i got home) is this going to be a problem?????? will i have to change the wireing harness and ecu???? will i have to get some new motormounts or do the same work???? how big of an exaust pipe do i have to have??? i want to 2.5 in, but my bro is telling me daz to small, he say to with a 3in, how much compression should the engine have??? *** they tested the engine and it tested 200psi on all 4 pistons
what else will i need to do the swap beside the down pipe (Jpipe) front mount intercoole
get back at me in a private mesg or e-mail e_cruz_831@yahoo.com
thanks, edgar
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Old 02-24-2006, 05:40 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real LINK23
Thanks,
I was but the price diff was to high. for 1100 I can turbo at 8psi(which is all I was wanting) on stock pistons and rods. I have a custom side mount intercooler from a eclipse mounted into my engine bay where my battery tray used to be. And Zex intercooler spray. A custom fabricated manifold, HKS ssqv, s-afc1 all thanks to the help at AJ customs of Sevierville TN.

I just want to have a good set up that will last a while for a decent price. I only want around the 205-210 hp range.

it is going to cost you so much more than 1100. Turbo setups do not only consist of manifold, wastegate, downpipe, turbo, injectors and intercooler. It would be silly to think you could RELIABLY turbocharge a car for 1100.
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Old 02-27-2006, 04:13 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul D GTi
I've searched everywhere and cant find any info on this so can you help please?

I've got a UK Almera gti sr20de and im gona turbo it using the t25bb extreme kit from the link below. I want to run it at about 9psi. Do you think i can bolt it straight on without lowering the compression or would i have to fit forged pistons, thicker h/gasket and run it off an emanage

http://www.importperformanceparts.ne...ec_nissan.html
The engines exactly the same as the sentra can anyone help?
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Old 02-27-2006, 05:01 PM   #18 (permalink)
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well, I don't know alot, but since ***** will take this one...

it says the kit comes with injection control unit and map unit. my guess would be you are set to go. ppl turbo DEs all the time over here and either go with a e-manage or JWT ecu. I think 14 psi is the max for stock internals (reliably). 8 psi max for the stock MAF. after that, you have to go with a larger maf and have the engine management programmed for it. most ppl hrre use ford mustang cobra mafs (*** they are cheap and JWT codes for them) but the expensive way is to use one from a Z32TT (jwt codes for them too). either way you have to run a different program than your stock maf program.

usually if someone says something wrong, the experts will jump in... hold your breath for someone to correct me...
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Old 02-27-2006, 10:09 PM   #19 (permalink)
trying a 350whp build...

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will
it is going to cost you so much more than 1100. Turbo setups do not only consist of manifold, wastegate, downpipe, turbo, injectors and intercooler. It would be silly to think you could RELIABLY turbocharge a car for 1100.
well the guy's that I'm working with to do it say otherwise.
We are custom fabricating a manifold out of the old pacesetter header I had on it.
He's only charging 300 to put it on.

T25 Turbo $185.00

Oil and liquid lines salvaged from some scrap nitrous lines.

Turbo rebuild $50

Super Afc $200.00

Rebuild kit. $115.00

All piping should only give or take around 50 bucks

Mitsubishi Intercooler $75.00

Cutom fabricated downpipe included in the 300 install fee.

HKS Super Sequential Blow Off Valve $235.00 Flange for BOV $40.00

Turbo Flange $20.00


Thats only 1270 and thats most everything you get in basic turbo kits.
I told them I had 1100 to work with give or take a few hundred. So they gave me a list of things to buy on ebay/through them. And we should have it on for this price if not a lil over 1270.
I intern there so I'm getting a lot of deals and a lot of free labor exchanged as on hands on experienced for me to learn how to do it.
Its a great deal. And their experience is reliable considering the owner's car is a turbo acura built fromt he ground up that he did. And the other partner has turbocharged many things in the past that are very reliable.
I was just simply asking a question on fuel mangment and if what I have in order is good. If I put the s-afc on will I still need to swap injectors or will I be ok? I was told to ask around just in case, but they think it will be ok. I just want a second opinion cause it is my car on the line here.

Last edited by The Real LINK23; 02-27-2006 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 02-27-2006, 11:35 PM   #20 (permalink)
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yeah. I have a few friends who made their own slap together kits and they did it for under a grand. thsi is with all used parts, and of course these were on B series motors, they got ther hondata programs for free and downloaded the correct map and timing for free. 1/3 the cost to turbo our cars is the engine management.
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