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BOOSTIN PROTECH STYLE
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by tkindred:
what is the most inexpensive way to get about 300 hp out of a sr20det.</font>
Properly tuned, you can get 300 easy from a t28 or better yet a t3 turbo matched with Manifold and Intercooler, not too big not too small. 440Cc injectors But if you get those you might as well step up to 550 cc injectors, OH and a tuning system I bet you you could do it with just an Apex Super AFC no JWT needed or tec2 stand alone needed.
Fuel FPR 3 inch exhaust, Boost controller Manual if you want to stay cheap If you really want to stay cheap U can go with a craftsmen Pressure controller. they run 25 bucks and are the same exact thing as a turbo x manual boost controler. Also a turbo timer would be recommended to keep the turbo running properly. Thats it. 300 easy. Properly tuned. I stress that fact.

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Mike.
Turbo Classic, T3/T04e Tial 35mm ".65Bar" Blitz BOV, Custom piping griffen intercooler Core with HK$ EndTanks,custom manifold, 370cc injectors, paxton fpr, Eibach Sportlines, everything else was stolen,:( Pectel coming up bigger Injectors and custom fuel rail. DAMN VILLIANS.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the info. I'd like a fairly stock engine with good power but not too much because things tend to break when pushing them. What you've suggested seems good to me. I'll check it out.
 

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Yeah a T25 won't do 300hp unless you run stupid boost on it. With 7PSI and open exhaust I did 203hp and 194ft-lbs. Also have to run stupid boost to run 12s on one of these things. I want one of these daily driver 12 second SE-Rs, so I would have to upgrade my turbo setup.

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Ben98SentraSE
98 Sentra SE TURBO and crashed 93 NX2000
 
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OH and a tuning system I bet you you could do it with just an Apex Super AFC no JWT needed or tec2 stand alone needed.

***This question was answered by Rob Cadle, a Garrett turbo engineer. Here is his response to using a stock ECU (or even with a S-AFC):

So you want to use the stock ECU? This is possible, but highly
unadvisable.
You will have to retard your ignition timing to around 0-5 degrees,
and
even then, there is a good possibility that it will be too far
advanced.
This loss in base timing will also cause your car to idle poorly,
throttle
response will be horrible, and freeway gas milage will tank. And you
still
probably will have over-advanced ignition timing, at least on the high
end.

***He has college degree, too.



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Jay Whitely
Tampa, FL
1996 200SX SE-R
GTi-R powered with F-MAX kit
 

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Yo Joe where in New York are u? Im always looking to check out other ppls se-r and maybe a couple runs to c how my shiet compares.
 

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BOOSTIN PROTECH STYLE
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Originally posted by v8killer:
OH and a tuning system I bet you you could do it with just an Apex Super AFC no JWT needed or tec2 stand alone needed.


God damn right and Im willing to put money on it to prove it, will you do the same? Im an inovator not a follower slick.

This question was answered by Rob Cadle, a Garrett turbo engineer. Here is his response to using a stock ECU (or even with a S-AFC):

So you want to use the stock ECU? This is possible, but highly
unadvisable.
You will have to retard your ignition timing to around 0-5 degrees,
and
even then, there is a good possibility that it will be too far
advanced.
This loss in base timing will also cause your car to idle poorly,
throttle
response will be horrible, and freeway gas milage will tank. And you
still
probably will have over-advanced ignition timing, at least on the high
end.

***He has college degree, too.


Uh Jay that was Robs response to Can you turbo a Sr20DE na Motor on the Mailing list, it has nothing to do with the AFC Vs JWT ECU debate, get a life and quit Putting stuff that is totally irrelavant in Post man, good god; Do you have nothing better to do? I understand what Rob is saying but you know I have not experienced any of those problems with my current set up. Is it so hard for you to believe that? Im the one actually doing it, all you have is theory, And to me Theory is worth absolutly nothing when you weigh it next to truth, so get off this tread man and continue to build your slow motors


[/B][/QUOTE]

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Mike.
Turbo Classic, T3/T04e Tial 35mm ".65Bar" Blitz BOV, Custom piping griffen intercooler Core with HK$ EndTanks,custom manifold, 370cc injectors, paxton fpr, Eibach Sportlines, everything else was stolen,
Pectel coming up bigger Injectors and custom fuel rail. DAMN VILLIANS.

[This message has been edited by PSSSHHHGOESMYSR20 (edited 06-05-2001).]
 
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God damn right and Im willing to put money on it to prove it, will you do the same? Im an inovator not a follower slick.

***Good for you.

So you want to use the stock ECU? This is possible, but highly
unadvisable.

Uh Jay that was Robs response to Can you turbo a Sr20DE na Motor on the Mailing list, it has nothing to do with the AFC Vs JWT ECU debate,

***You are a dumbass. That statement by Rob was in response to "Can you turbo an SR20DE motor, etc...". You are correct. However, it does have a lot to do with the JWT ECU debate, in that the guy was asking if he could use the stock ECU for a turbo setup. Rob replied that if he used just the stock ECU, then there would primarily be ignition timing issues that a JWT ECU solves in its turbo program. Notice in my introdution of Rob's reply, I put the S-AFC comment in parentheses, meaning that he did not address the S-AFC, but that you could use his statement to deduct that if you use just an SR20DE ECU (and maybe add a S-AFC or some other supplemental electronic device), then it will still not be optimum. This was just a part of the SE-R mailing list thread, which addressed other things besides the ECU. Rob later advised the guy to get a JWT ECU and some MSD injectors.

get a life

***Who says I don't have one?


and quit Putting stuff that is totally irrelavant in Post man,

**It is completely relevant. You just have to pay attention and read.

good god; Do you have nothing better to do?

***I have plenty to do, thanks. Aren't you on the internet, too? Don't YOU have anything better to do?


I understand what Rob is saying but you know I have not experienced any of those problems with my current set up.

***Good for you.


Is it so hard for you to believe that?

***Not really. If you say it runs fine, I believe you. I just wouldn't do it that way on my car. But, it is not my car and you are more than welcome to do what you wish with your setup.


Im the one actually doing it, all you have is theory,

***Says who? How do you know anything about my car? I have driven it with the turbo setup and it was great. I am not just some guy who still has an SR20DE who is piecing together a turbo system and now I think I can talk about this stuff. I do have experience with a turbo Nissan.

And to me Theory is worth absolutly nothing when you weigh it next to truth,

***Theory...truth? Huh? You might want to compare theory with practical applications, not the truth. Truth and theory have nothing to do with each other.


so get off this tread man and continue to build your slow motors


***I have never built a slow motor. How do you know anything about any motor I have ever built? By the way, why do you get so personal with your attacks. This is supposed to be a friendly forum for discussing/debating. You are out line sometimes, you dumbass.



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Jay Whitely
Tampa, FL
1996 200SX SE-R
GTi-R powered with F-MAX kit
 

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BOOSTIN PROTECH STYLE
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1,397 Posts
.So you want to use the stock ECU? This is possible, but highly
unadvisable.,


I use the BB ECU with the AFC but I have used the stock ECU before and both work just fine. But I agree if you use the stock ecu by itself. Like Rob stated.

***You are a dumbass. That statement by Rob was in response to "Can you turbo an SR20DE motor, etc...". You are correct. However, it does have a lot to do with the JWT ECU debate, in that the guy was asking if he could use the stock ECU for a turbo setup. Rob replied that if he used just the stock ECU, then there would primarily be ignition timing issues that a JWT ECU solves in its turbo program. Notice in my introdution of Rob's reply, I put the S-AFC comment in parentheses, meaning that he did not address the S-AFC, but that you could use his statement to deduct that if you use just an SR20DE ECU (and maybe add a S-AFC or some other supplemental electronic device), then it will still not be optimum. This was just a part of the SE-R mailing list thread, which addressed other things besides the ECU. Rob later advised the guy to get a JWT ECU and some MSD injectors.

OF course rob is right if you use a Stock ECU alone it can be done but it is Higley unadviasable. Im talking about useing the STOCK ECU and using the AFC to control the fuel maps. I bet you if you ask Rob that he will say that it will work because it does. The stock ecu doesnt have the maps for larger injectors there for it wouldn't work by itself. DUH!!


**It is completely relevant. You just have to pay attention and read.

I did read it correctly and I did pay attention. You are failing to realize the significance between using a STOCK ECU and using it a STOCK ECU in CONJUCTION with the APex SUPER AFC, Get your head out of your ass.

Is it so hard for you to believe that?

***Not really. If you say it runs fine, I believe you. I just wouldn't do it that way on my car. But, it is not my car and you are more than welcome to do what you wish with your setup.


Im so glad.

Im the one actually doing it, all you have is theory,

***Says who? How do you know anything about my car? I have driven it with the turbo setup and it was great. I am not just some guy who still has an SR20DE who is piecing together a turbo system and now I think I can talk about this stuff. I do have experience with a turbo Nissan.


You have never used the AFC with the Sr20 motor therfore you have nothing but theory and aligations, no facts.

so get off this tread man and continue to build your slow motors


***I have never built a slow motor. How do you know anything about any motor I have ever built? By the way, why do you get so personal with your attacks. This is supposed to be a friendly forum for discussing/debating. You are out line sometimes, you dumbass.


You want to talk about getting personal, calling my setup ghetto is pretty personal, and I was still being nice at that point, then calling me BOOMGOESMYSR20, You brought what you see now to a head slick. Oh by the way I spoke to the DSM guys and even linked them to your post and my post. They just couldnt stop laughing about how clueless you really are. Have a good day Jay Im through with you.

Mike Collins
TurboClassic NO boom boom



[This message has been edited by PSSSHHHGOESMYSR20 (edited 06-05-2001).]
 
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I use the BB ECU with the AFC but I have used the stock ECU before and both work just fine.

***I can agree that the BB ECU with S-AFC will be just fine, but the SR20DE ECU does not have the ability to retard the igntion timing under boost (at higher than stock airflow). Installing larger injectors on a motor with the BB ECU and S-AFC will work perfectly, just like what you do when you upgrade injectors on a DSM.


OF course rob is right if you use a Stock ECU alone it can be done but it is Higley unadviasable. Im talking about useing the STOCK ECU and using the AFC to control the fuel maps.

***The S-AFC WILL control his fuel curve, no doubt. But, will it it do anything to give him a different ignition timing curve optimized for a turbocharged engine? No. The JWT ECU will alter the timing curve and give you more ignition timing retard under boost. The stock ECU with S-AFC WILL NOT.

I bet you if you ask Rob that he will say that it will work because it does.

**Sure, it will, but you would need to get another device to retard timing under boost, like an MSD BTM.

You are failing to realize the significance between using a STOCK ECU and using it a STOCK ECU in CONJUCTION with the APex SUPER AFC, Get your head out of your ass.

***Thanks for the suggestion about where to remove my head from. It was getting hot in there! Anyways, YOU are failing to realize my point. Again, a stock ECU with S-AFC will work in terms of fuel contro, but it will still not alter his timing curve.

You have never used the AFC with the Sr20 motor therfore you have nothing but theory and aligations, no facts.

***Do you need to jump off a building to know that you will probably die? You have a theory based on logic that says, if I do this, then that will happen (or probably happen). I do not need to install a S-AFC in a turbo SE-R to know that my ignition timing is still not where it needs to be b/c I am using a stock ECU.

You want to talk about getting personal, calling my setup ghetto is pretty personal, and I was still being nice at that point, then calling me BOOMGOESMYSR20, You brought what you see now to a head slick.

**You are right about that. I am sorry. That was uncalled for and I should not have said that.

Oh by the way I spoke to the DSM guys and even linked them to your post and my post. They just couldnt stop laughing about how clueless you really are.

***It's actually the other way around. Most DSM guys are the clueless ones. A few days ago on the SE-R list, there was a comparison to DSM guys as being very much like clueless V8 guys. I can believe that.

How am I clueless? I have not recommended one thing to do to a car that I know will not be right. There is question at all about the reliability my methods.

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Jay Whitely
Tampa, FL
1996 200SX SE-R
GTi-R powered with F-MAX kit
 

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Jeeze, JWT vs non-JWT... golly, big hairy deal.

If I had a car that I didn't have a payment on and had another form of transportation, yeah I could get an APEX box or a TEC-II or any of them and go to town, probably do a pretty good job given some time. But I turboed my PRIMARY means of transportation, a car that I have 3 and a half years of payments left on. I'm not going to monkey with stuff I don't know how to do anything with.

Even if I DID have another form of transportation, maybe I wouldn't feel like playing with a APEX or standalone. Maybe paying the JWT box is what I want to do. It doesn't make me stupid, or any less of a man, or anything like that. You can have your APEX box or whatnot and someone else can have their JWT plug and play box. Whatever. One is not right and one is not wrong. Just different. Maybe you can make more power with a non-JWT solution. Maybe you can't. Someone wants to play with that stuff, more power to them. Some of us just don't want to, and that doesn't make us bad/stupid/feminine people. Some of us are happy that we DON'T have to play with that stuff and just have a fast(er) car with ease of installation. Some of us are willing to tinker and "take a chance" however slight or great that chance may be.

There is a guy in NY that came to the convention that has a DET in a classic and is running the DET ECU with the DE MAF, not APEX box or otherwise. Crazy right? He's been running with it like that for months, flogging the heck out of it, and it runs great. Who am I to say "That's stupid, you are going to blow it up" ? It hasn't blown up, so more power to him for having the guts.


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Ben98SentraSE
98 Sentra SE TURBO and crashed 93 NX2000
 

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Power to spare...
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979 Posts
Mike wrote:
You have never used the AFC with the Sr20 motor therfore you have nothing but theory and aligations, no facts.

***Do you need to jump off a building to know that you will probably die? You have a theory based on logic that says, if I do this, then that will happen (or probably happen). I do not need to install a S-AFC in a turbo SE-R to know that my ignition timing is still not where it needs to be b/c I am using a stock ECU.


He just doesn't get it Jay. In our last discussion I tried to point this out to him myself and got this:

"LMFAO HA HA Get out of here GImP. Go tune your lawn mower with some JWT products. And stick to what you know GA BOY."

So as to you apologizing for calling him a name, he took our thread to a level where I just quit responding. When you get like this you are either full of **** and out of stuff to defend yourself with or your obviously under 13 years old. This forum is for learning, and while this gets heated at times, posts need to remain gentlemenly.

This started all over a blanket statement over one setup over another. I had a problem with that.

Oh and to the last statement toward me from Mike:

"Dont talk about stuff you have never used in your intire life. We have used both and found out the true results, calc that into your CPU."

A lawyer doesn't start learning the day he acquires his degree; I can assure you he knew the law far before that point.

Chill Mike, I know the other camps (Honda, Mitsu's) use AFC's, but I am very sure this is because they have no choice...(No aftermarket ECU's designed catered to turbo/nitrous)
 

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***Do you need to jump off a building to know that you will probably die? You have a theory based on logic that says, if I do this, then that will happen (or probably happen). I do not need to install a S-AFC in a turbo SE-R to know that my ignition timing is still not where it needs to be b/c I am using a stock ECU.

Ok Use the JWT to retard timing under boost, but if you still use a stock ignition that isnt helping you much is it. Now if you get an MSD Ignition with boost retard capability then you will be set, much higher on the reliability factor.


He just doesn't get it Jay. In our last discussion I tried to point this out to him myself and got this:

You tried to point something out to me that you know nothing about, thats why I laughed. U are the type of person trys to knock something with no base line of facts, You are the one who doesn't get it my friend.

This started all over a blanket statement over one setup over another. I had a problem with that.

Chill Mike, I know the other camps (Honda, Mitsu's) use AFC's, but I am very sure this is because they have no choice...(No aftermarket ECU's designed catered to turbo/nitrous)

Oh believe me both Honda and DSMs have many choices DSMs do have aftermarket ECUs and I know Hondas have a few floating around. Get real man. They use it cause it works, and works well. Try something before you knock it next time.

Mike C
Turbo Classic
 
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