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Recovering Rice Boy
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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys...just got off the phone with Speedpeople.com they sell the Aerospeed Coilovers for the b13 and b14 for 149.99...But this is the only spring rate they offer. If I remember correctly for a daily driven car..this is gonna be way too stiff correct? would the ride height you have the car set at affect the ride any? Would it ride like **** regardless? Just wanting some more input before i make the decision on which Coilovers I go with. So far its Weapon R and the good old 400 Ground Controls....About to call Weapon R and see what there's are...
 

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Recovering Rice Boy
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Discussion Starter #2
The nice ( sarcasticly..very sarcasticly ) people at Weapon R...hung up on me twice and then they're tech guy..exact quote " Our spring rates are totally different then everybody else's! ( which isn't always a good thing ) I then ask..can I get a ball park figure??? Him: " We don't give out that information...They're gonna be higher than any other company out there because its a dual spring setup! ( What a sales guy huh? ) Anyways..that was pretty much it so Weapons R's ????? spring rate...hmmm..don't think im buying those!

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Irwin 96 wit stuff
 
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From what I remember that is not TOO bad as far as rates go. It will be rough but you should be able to live with it. And yes the ride it affected by how much you lower it. if you go too low you will be sitting on the bump stops and that is not only unconfortable but not too safe.

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MarC

http://members.home.net/mnmanderson/Publish/
AIM SER96MarC
 

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employment whiplash, NC
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With those rates, I think you'll be on the edge of what a good aftermarket shock can handle. Any higher and you'll need some custom valved shocks that can handle those spring rates.
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Soopastank:
Hey guys...just got off the phone with Speedpeople.com they sell the Aerospeed Coilovers for the b13 and b14 for 149.99...But this is the only spring rate they offer. If I remember correctly for a daily driven car..this is gonna be way too stiff correct? would the ride height you have the car set at affect the ride any? Would it ride like **** regardless? Just wanting some more input before i make the decision on which Coilovers I go with. So far its Weapon R and the good old 400 Ground Controls....About to call Weapon R and see what there's are...</font>
That's bass ackwards...

Should be 400front 300rear if anything.

Craig D has 450/300's with AGX struts...nice set up actually. The stiffer spring rate helps overcome the lack of travel.

Tell the wEaPoN aRe guys to shove it right up there VTEC ass.
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Soopastank:
Hey guys...just got off the phone with Speedpeople.com they sell the Aerospeed Coilovers for the b13 and b14 for 149.99...But this is the only spring rate they offer. If I remember correctly for a daily driven car..this is gonna be way too stiff correct? </font>
Huh? That's an f-in stupid spring rate combo! I mean, a few racers can probably handle that kind of spring rate (George Perenis comes to mind), but a car with those kinds of rates is going to be prone to SERIOUS snap oversteer. This is OK if you're gunning for an autox national championship (and if you have the skill to back it up), but for a street driven car those spring rates are insane! You will probably spin and die in your first emergency lane change manuever.

Sounds like those spring rates were spec'd for Hondas (with completely different suspension geometry from us, they often run stiffer rear than front springs, and they also tend to need higher spring rates), then just transferred right over to Sentras with no basic understanding of the way suspensions work. Those springs rates make NO sense for any kind of 2500 lb FWD strut car. None.

What MaddMatt said about these springs probably being too stiff to work with reasonably economical street shocks (ie, AGX's) is spot on, as well. Your car will be scary with these springs.

Rob

Rob

[This message has been edited by ClassicSE-R (edited 03-20-2001).]
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Soopastank:
Him: " We don't give out that information...They're gonna be higher than any other company out there because its a dual spring setup!
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What a moron. You guys have to understand something: companies like Weapon R are Rice companies. They are not run by, led by, or marketed towards, real enthusiats. They are geared towards people who want fast cars, but don't really understand all the technology that goes into making a good fast car.

I have come to a couple of conclusions based on my experience with the aftermarket:

1) Most of the aftermarket has horrible customer service.

2) Most people running aftermarket companies don't really understand the products that they are producing/selling

3) Most of the time, a product that way undercuts the competition on price is a piece of ****.

I hear people all the time getting on me, Mike Kojima, and others about how we want to stiffle innovation in the SE-R community, about how we are opionated hard-headed dicks who don't want to see new products developed for our cars. That is complete bullshit.

Please don't think I'm being elitest for what I'm going to say, but here's reality: you have to honestly, objectively, and seriously evaluate your capability to understand the things that go on your car. Do you understand how a header works? I mean, really understand, as in could you pull out the equations that define the ideal runner size for a header? Do you know enough about welding and metalurgy to tell if header X is made well or not? Do you know enough about suspension design to know what size sway bars will work well on your car? Do you know enough to say what kind of spring rates you need, for sure? Can you spec dampers?

If you do not have this kind of knowledge, don't expect some aftermarket dude to educate you. Most likely, he will just rip you off and sell you a piece of ****. Leave being "innovative" to people who have the knowledge and experience to do it right. Instead of asking the guy at Weapon R what kind of spring rates you should run, ask somebody like Me, Mike K, Grover, Kyle, Sheening, etc.... guys who all have significant levels of experience setting up and driving cars on race tracks. Better yet, just do what we do.
I'm not saying this to stiffle innovation. Rather, it's because we have usually done a lot of hard work to figure out what works. Why try to reproduce what works when you don't have the experience base to do so? It doesn't make any sense.

When it comes to suspension stuff, I personally believe that there are only 4 real choices: Ground Controls with KYB AGX's/GAB's (do not lower car more than 3/4"!), Motivational, Truechoice, and ShockTeck.

If you want to run something other than this, ask yourself the following questions: 1) "Do I have the knowledge to spec out a suspension that is as good or better than the above?" 2) "Does the company that I am working with have a proven history with suspension design" (this pretty much exclusively means: have they won mutliple road racing championships at the National or International level)?

If the answer to either of the questions is "no", then don't try to be innovative and come up with a new product. Just run the **** that's already been figured out and proven.

I'm not saying this to be a dick, or to stroke my own ego. I'm saying this to try and save you guys some heartache and money.

Rob
 

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Not on fire... yet
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Damn good explaination.

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93 NX2K
some stuff and a DET
"project street mod?"
1988 BMW M3 w/ a few toys
 

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employment whiplash, NC
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What Rob said.

I've also found you really get what you pay for. The $149 coilovers perform like $149 coilovers. If you're into show and not go, that may work for you. Take it to a track or autocross and you'll see why Ground Controls are $400.

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Matt
92 SE-R from Heck
 

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i have 400# front, and 300# rear.. and it works great. my car is a little heavier than a 200sx/sentra though.


btw, i've heard that aerospeed coilovers are junk. i haven't been able to experience first hand though.



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Jon
'95 G20t

Stillen intake, HS header, "custom" exhaust, A'PEXi Dunk muffler, JUN flywheel, ACT clutch, GC's w/AGX's, '93 intake cam
 

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employment whiplash, NC
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Forgot to mention, I have GC coilovers on AGX shocks. 350/front, 250/rear. Lowered ~1 inch. So far I have been extremely pleased with the performance (except for the squeeking!!!!) and would recommend them to anyone. I look forward to making some noise in STS this year.

Matt
 

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Why would their spring rates be something you couldn't change??? I always thought one of the benefits of coilovers was having springs (like the small-diameter Eibach ERS springs) that come in a variety of different rates so you can mix and match to your liking.


Watch out for the poseurs that cater to the riceboy crowd. I'm sure they mainly deal with Hondas, and Hondas and Nissans are two different animals when it comes to suspension setups. Chances are, they are just giving you a generic setup that worked (I use that term loosely) for Billy Riceboy's 4-door Accord that he uses to cruize the strip with his yo-boy friends.

Oh and what Rob said was right on. Why get crazy spring rates if you aren't going to race (autox/roadrace/trackschools) your car?

Pat
'93 Sentra SE-R, '99 Street Touring-R SCCA Pro Solo national championship car
 

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Everybody must listen to Rob, i hope there is a lot more people reading this then replying, just so we are sure that everybody sees it. And dont try to tell Rob that he is wrong. Hes a damn smart guy. my god half the time he can stump 950 out of a 1000 people on the main list with some of his equations. He explains things the ay he knows best, through math, which is the best way, unfortunately most dont know enough about cars to know what hes talking about. As for me, hell i dont understand *everything* he says about a certain product, however, once he starts spouting off #'s and equations, i knows hes right bout what hes saying, and to pay closer attention, and to go along with what hes saying. i can tell you, that 350f/400r is definately not what oyu want. in fact, if anything, its opposite. i know of a couple guy that run 400f/300r setups, and these are track cars only, not even street driven, or rarely are. Specifically what rob said *snap oversteer*. If you turn that wheel the slightest bit too much, the back end will start to sway, and you wont even feel it, cuz you are so stiff in the rear, and by the time you realize, and start to counter, you will most likely be in the middle of a spin headed for a big tree or something. do yourself a favor and save for the ground controls. you will probably be happiest with a 350/250 setup or something close to that.

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Ryan Walsh, 1997 200sx SE-R w/ ES mounts, JWT s4's, AEBS 4-1, PR CAI, Sportlines/AGX's, Bridgestone re730's, Stillen GTR grill
 

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Recovering Rice Boy
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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks for all your replies guys! I appreciate all the info everyone was willing to share! Thanks to all your info I didn't make a rash decision...Im still doing research and haven't decided what coilovers to get..but all your input has helped me!

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Irwin 96 wit stuff
 

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JordanWhiteMusic.com
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Just ask yourself this......how the hell great can $130-$150 coilovers be? I mean the GC's are what $400+ ?

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Jordan White (Stormy)
'98 Sentra SE(R)
Hotshot G3 Header, Hotshot CAI, JWT s4 Cams, KYB AGXs, Eibach Sportlines, Courtesy F&R STB's, ES Mounts, MOMO Shifter, Nis-Knacks chrome projector headlights and clear corners, 205/50/15 Pirelli P700Z's on SE-R wheels, 205/40/17 Kuhmos on 17" Borbet Type S's for the summer

15.454 @ 88mph at Englishtown, NJ - with the $hitty stock cams, 14's this season

[This message has been edited by Storm88000 (edited 03-22-2001).]
 

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JordanWhiteMusic.com
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Damn, all this talk of high ass spring rates. Me and RPW are sitting here on the Eibach Ricelines. At least we got one part right, the KYB AGX's



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Jordan White (Stormy)
'98 Sentra SE(R)
Hotshot G3 Header, Hotshot CAI, JWT s4 Cams, KYB AGXs, Eibach Sportlines, Courtesy F&R STB's, ES Mounts, MOMO Shifter, Nis-Knacks chrome projector headlights and clear corners, 205/50/15 Pirelli P700Z's on SE-R wheels, 205/40/17 Kuhmos on 17" Borbet Type S's for the summer

15.454 @ 88mph at Englishtown, NJ - with the $hitty stock cams, 14's this season
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Storm88000:
At least we got one part right, the KYB AGX's

</font>
Yeah, if you haven't broken the foot valves in the shocks yet from all that bottoming out :)

Rob
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ClassicSE-R:
Yeah, if you haven't broken the foot valves in the shocks yet from all that bottoming out :)

Rob
</font>
Well, Rob, I havent really pushed the car on the roads around here cuz of the weather, but in the summer ill be driving more(nicer weather) and im sure ill have more of a chance to mess up thre struts, lol. I dont really care though, i kinda expect it, and i wanna get Motivationals now, anyways. As for breakin the foot valve, i havent YET! The ride hasnt changed at all since i bought them(has always been pretty shitty
) and the car is still riding at the same height which means the valve isnt broken, right? Wouldnt it sit lower cuz the strut shaft can actaully go further into the shock body / actually casuing it to sit on the bumpstops.


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Ryan Walsh, 1997 200sx SE-R w/ ES mounts, JWT s4's, AEBS 4-1, PR CAI, Sportlines/AGX's, Bridgestone re730's, Stillen GTR grill
 

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Track Whore
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I have to agree with Rob. When i first bought my car, I had no clue what I was getting into. I did not even wrench on my car much. But I read up and listened to the valuable advice of Mike and Rob and voila I have a semi-kick ass car. I am just following what mike K is doing to his car, minus the internal engine changes.

I am runnig the TrueChoice set-up and I am very pleased. When I start racing, I have to remove the spring tneders (not allowed) and I will change the ERS and go up to 400 fr and 300 r. I am now at 250 r and 350 fr. I think I need stiffer springs.
 
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